Ryan McGee
#0
For many people, forgiveness is difficult. A person wrongs you, and you cannot bring yourself to pardon that person. You continue to feel resentment towards the person. The very presence of the person disgusts you, and you may be inclined in your heart to seek vengeance for the wrong the person committed against you. Today during his homily, father spoke about two monks who once were friends but who, because of one small incident, suddenly became resentful and unforgiving of one another. Even the monks fall prey to unforgiving attitudes. None of us is exempt from this tendency.
I know that we are supposed to forgive a person always and unconditionally, no matter how many times that person has sinned against us. What I wonder is if there exists a distinction between forgiveness and forgetting the pain that someone has caused you.
As an example from my own life: this past year I spent the year teaching. Many of the students were extremely unruly and disrespectful towards me. Several parents as well didn\'t treat me the best. A lot of what I felt were offenses were probably not intentional against me, but still, by the end of each day, I brimmed with inner anger that had developed throughout the day.
Right now (and not to speak with presumption) I feel that I can forgive the students, the parents and others, and I believe I have to a certain degree in my heart, but I still cannot forget the pain of certain experiences.
I find this particular example to be the general case with many friends and family in my life. I don\'t find it difficult to forgive someone (at least mentally in my mind). At present, I don\'t feel unreconciled with anyone whom I feel has wronged me in the past. However, I still bear along with me the pain that came through other persons\' actions. Whenever a memory brings up this pain, I sometimes catch myself imagining scenarios by which I subtly \\"get back\\" at a person. I quickly check these pre-meditations, and focus my mind on something else, or pray, or both. For me at least, it is easy to forgive someone upfront, but difficult to follow through with this forgiveness continually when the memory of that pain does not go away.
I think of Christian sufferers of abuse. On a regular basis, they are wronged, are hurt in such a way that their minds are affected. They may be able to say \\"I forgive you,\\" but that pain only builds up as the abuser commits the same offense again and again. Even more so, I often wonder how rape victims are able to forgive. With the help of God, they can bring themselves to forgiving the rapist, but the psychological pain of being violated --I can\'t imagine the Lord expecting a person to forget that experience in order to fully forgive.
Sadly, even in Orthodoxy, I notice an attitude that is unwilling to reconcile with groups (Latins, Turks, Poles, etc.) that have inflicted great sufferings on Orthodox people. Individuals may be forgiven, but as to the larger group, it cannot be forgiven for its collective actions, nor can the harms it commits ever be forgotten.
Please feel free to comment. I\'m open to constructive criticism as well.
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NM
#15
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CD
#16
In the book Dorotheos of Gaza (this is a total paraphrase. i don\'t have the book with me)... there is a young monk who was easily distracted, talked a lot, couldn\'t fast very well, etc., etc., and he was put under the direction of Dorotheos. He was in the monastery for only a short time before he became seriously ill and died. A visiting elder came to the monastery and prayed God to show him the rich history of the monastery in the form of the departed spiritual leaders of the monastery. God granted him a vision, and in this vision were many venerable, old monks, with long hair and beards. At the end of the vision, however, he saw a young monk, with a short beard and short hair. The visiting elder was perplexed by this and went to the elders of the monastery asking who this young monk was. The elders recognized the young monk of the vision as the young monk who had been under the direction of Dorotheos. The elders also were perplexed as to why the young monk was counted among the spiritual leaders of the monastery\'s history. They then call in Dorotheos and asked him what the virtues of the young monk were. Dorotheos said that it was true that the young monk was easily distracted, like to talk, was not a good faster, etc., etc. He continued on, however, by saying that although the young monk, perhaps did not appear to be the ideal of a monastic, he never once in his time at the monastery held a grudge, or remembered a wrong done against him. That was the reason that he was counted by God among the great fathers of the monastery.
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Ryan McGee
#17
Orthonut wrote:
Great story Christiana14. I'll have to add that to my list of wise stories to share with others. :)
Orthonut
Ditto. Great story.
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CD
#18
We have to remember in the parable of the servant who was forgiven of his debt by his master... the debt was equal to the size of a small country\'s treasury. How much greater is our debt toward God... and yet through the sacraments and His incredible love and mercy He continually forgives us. In light of His love it seems like such a small thing to forget the little injustices done against us, and yet it is so difficult.
Imagine a world where everyone remembered every wrong done to them. No one would get along. Everyone would hate each other, and people would become islands. Yet we as Orthodox Christians know that no one can be saved alone. We need one another. I think it is clear that our road to salvation is dependent on our willingness to forgive and forget the sins of others. How can we love God if we cannot love our brothers and sisters in Christ? Doesn\'t love necessitate forgiveness?
Just thinking out loud...
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JS
#19
I totally understand where you\'re coming from - gee, don\'t I know it.
I\'m living with a friend that I\'ve known for about 7 years. Her life was her beauty. And when her ex broke up with her, she sort of withered away, put on a lot of weight and slowly but surely entered a depression. Since the beginning of the year, I tried and tried and tried, encouraging her to do sports with me, inviting her out, planning things for us to do together, etc...
But over the last four months, I\'ve noticed her actually slapping me in the face time after time. She hardly speaks to me, even though I try to engage conversation, when we have friends over, she\'ll chat animatedly to them but when I ask her something she\'ll reply in a morose tone of voice.
She\'s continually disregarded my feelings by not pulling her weight, she won\'t touch any cleaning duties in the house, even if the mess is her own, she makes snide comments about something I have done or accomplished.
I have forgiven her over and over. I am still trying to talk to her but when do I draw the line? I used to be very angry and resentful because I spent so much of my time on someone who doesn\'t deserve it but now I\'m placid, I just need to learn to forget.
Bah - I know, I need some working on in the \\"being a good Christian area\\" :)
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Reader Michael Malloy
#20
I believe in many ways, it is best to forget as well as forgive. If we dwell on past wrongs we fail to release the evil they represent and our lives are poisoned by the memories. I speak from personal experience here. As a choir director I was tested constantly. Members of the choir gossiped about me behind my back, they complained to the priest, the rebelled openly. This cause me great stress and sometimes I failed to keep my feelings inside. In the end I failed as a choir director because I could not minister to the members of the choir and became obsessed with thier failings. It was an ugly situation. The more I tried to be a good choir director the worse the situation became. In the end I was removed, painfully on a Holy Friday in front of the whole congregation, and I went into a period of seclusion for about two years. I was filled with anger, hurt, and resentment over the way I was treated. In the end, the love of Christ was the only thing left and I returned to the Church. I now sing with that same choir, warts and all, and I don\'t pay attention to the flaws in leadership of it in the current configuration. I\'m able to attend Church, worship, and hear great sermons again.
Naturally I would rather sing in a well disciplined and competent choir, but I partake in what is available and don\'t worry about it any more. This is all the more difficult for me because I have a bachelor of music degree and I am painfully aware of every musical error. I ignore the bad singing and concentrate on community worship now.
Reader Michael Malloy
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AW
#21
I need to know if forgetting is the same as walking back into a destructive situation and getting hurt or worse, letting my husband and children get hurt and broken because of the behavior of the other party. I can forgive and do forgive every time something happens and I ask for a lot of forgiveness every time I get angry with them, but what about forgetting? I cannot keep getting hurt like this.
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CD
#22
adawnw69 wrote:
I need to know if forgetting is the same as walking back into a destructive situation and getting hurt or worse, letting my husband and children get hurt and broken because of the behavior of the other party. I can forgive and do forgive every time something happens and I ask for a lot of forgiveness every time I get angry with them, but what about forgetting? I cannot keep getting hurt like this.
I think forgiveness, true forgiveness, necessitates forgetting. This does leave us so vulnerable to hurt, but it also leaves us open to something that heals all hurt... that is the grace of God.
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John Chan
#7
I have little control over what I remember or forget. It seems that most of the times, I forget what I want to remember and vice versa.
It\'s rather that the HURT is forgotten, though the painful events are not. Memories are no longer accompanied with negative emotion.
Like a scar. It\'s there. It\'s ugly. The wound, though, is healed.
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NM
#3
In my experience, once we forgive and let go we gradually forget.
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JJ
#2
Without a true repentent life, we cannot forgive. And forgetting the wrongs of others can only be possible when we live in repentence...because our salvation is dependent on our repentent state of soul. How can we waste time blaming others when we are worried and struggling for our own salvation and hoping that God will not condemn us for our sins?
When we value our salvation above all else, then our repentence will bring out the forgiveness, that Christ taught and there will be no question of remembering. Forgiveness is final. There are plenty of examples of the Orthodox saints that exemplified forgiveness.
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CD
#1
St. Dionysius of Zakynthos coudld be called a \\"victim\\" of an extreme hurt...
One night a man came knocking on St. Dionysius\' door begging for refuge from the authorities. St. Dionysius ushered the man into his home asking him why he was being sought after. The man confessed to the saint that he had just killed a man... a monk of a monastery close by. After further questioning St. Dionysius realized the murdered man was his own beloved brother. We can all imagine how it would feel for one of us to lose someone dear in such a horrific way. I, myself can think of all the terrible things I would do and say to someone who would even think of hurting my family. Yet, St. Dionysius did nothing, but show the most selfless love and forgiveness possible, and hid the man from the authorities, and his own family who was seeking revenge. When it was finally safe, St. Dionysius provided his brother\'s murderer with food and money, and sent him on his way.
It is true that he probably did not \\"forget\\" the fact that his brother was murdered, because it was a horrific grief, but he clearly \\"kept no record of wrong\\".
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NM
#6
christiana14 wrote:It is true that he probably did not \"forget\" the fact that his brother was murdered, because it was a horrific grief, but he clearly \"kept no record of wrong\".
That\'s a great point. Every day is a new beginning, a completely fresh start and if we really accept that and treat it as such it is amazing how much of our burden God takes from us!
NOTE: Theres a really great old Russian saying about how a new day is like a fresh beautiful white field of snow... I can\'t remember it though.
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Ana Hudici
#5
Forgiving is so important for our relation with God:\\"And forgive us as we forgive other...\\"
And it is in this relation with God that we find peace and spiritual rebirth , complete recovery.
These are not words, they are facts , for someone who really feels deep in themselves the relation with God.They not only forgive and forget but they also suffer/weep for those who cannot bond again in the same friendship , who go around their ego in their too much efforts of forgiving and forgetting.
I know a situation when one had to forgive the killer of their brother .He was a priest ,also tortured in the Communist Romanian prisons .And he went to his brother\'s killer and told him.:You have killed my brother. You are my brother.\\"
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Ana Hudici
#4
Forgiving is so important for our relation with God:\\"And forgive us as we forgive other...\\"
And it is in this relation with God that we find peace and spiritual rebirth , complete recovery.
These are not words, they are facts , for someone who really feels deep in themselves the relation with God.They not only forgive and forget but they also suffer/weep for those who cannot bond again in the same friendship , who go around their ego in their too much efforts of forgiving and forgetting.
I know a situation when one had to forgive the killer of their brother .He was a priest ,also tortured in the Communist Romanian prisons .And he went to his brother\'s killer and told him.:You have killed my brother. You are my brother.\\"
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