Andrew Leer
#0
I've been on an anti-depressant (an SSRI inhibitor) for a little over two years now and I've lost my job due to a lack of creativity/motivation I think, either that or the economy. But I really don't like how the stuff if making me feel; a lot of time has passed, and I don't notice it going, I also don't seem to care about much; I'm a little bit like that guy in the movie Office Space after he was hypnotized by that doctor.
So what is the Church's take on anti-depressants? I used to avoid confession because I was too obsessive compulsive about my sins, but now I just don't go because I just don't care. I blame the anti-depressant now, before I was on the anti-depressant I would blame God (however there were other issues involved here for instance that the reason I went on the anti-depressant in the first place was that my eyes just failed on me and I spent a year on the couch because it was too hard to see, it was almost like I was blind or something...eventually I did eye exercises and got my vision back, and also discovered that it had something to do with my grinding my teeth at night).
I haven't really been religious at all since I started taking this anti-depressant stuff. Before I started taking it I used to get voices in my head which I previously perceived to be God or Satan talking to me (funny thing is the voice was the same for both of them) but anyhow the voices have stopped with the anti-depressant and now my religious type stuff isn't even a concern anymore as it appears to me that the voices in my head were just my overly active brain doing what it used to do...
http://scienceblog.com/cms/can-hearing-voices-in-your-head-be-a-good-thing-11488.html
So what is the Church's take on being prescribed to zone out like this?
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#1
I can't really speak authoritatively on this, but I was told by my spiritual father that anti-depressants are not really an issue in the church. Depression, anxiety and other disorders are very much a symptom of a fallen world, like any other ailment. Having tried a variety of different antidepressants, I can tell you that not all of them zone you out (Paxil is bad for that I found), and if the side effects are too difficult to live with then your doctor can switch you to something else.
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#2
If you take medication and it makes the voices stop, that strongly suggests that it was neither God nor Satan, just your brain as you say. If you stop the medication and the voices come back, you'll know not to ascribe any special supernatural knowledge to them. Trust them no more nor less than you'd trust your own brain.
I don't really know the Church's take on medications, but I'd advise you to ask your Priest about it.
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Several priests I've talked to suggest that anti-depressants should certainly be taken if you need them. Its safe to say that \"abusing\" anti-depressants is wrong but, I've only heard of people abusing pain killers and not so much anti-depressants. There are different anti-depressants on the market .... Pehaps your taking the wrong one for YOU. Everybody's physical chemistry is different. I found that Zoloft works best for me .... As far as the effectiveness and less side effects compared to others I have taken before it.
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#6
Just to chime in, it might be worth it to talk to your doctor about another medical condition you have that could also cause some of the things you describe.
For instance are you apathetic or just lack energy? Perhaps the apathy could be treated with a psychologist and the energy could be a hormone disorder.
No way for me to guess, just talk to your doctor, that's their job.
Once that's done, my advice is to do what your doctors says / conclude and live your life, let your doctor worry about which and what and figuring stuff out. Go to church, light a candle, say a prayer. Go for a walk. Fly a kite. Whatever it is you do or have wanted to, just do it. Leave the past in the past, live your life and live free in Christ.
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Andrew Leer
#7
Here's an interesting take on SIN: http://is.gd/dOCEB
The above podcast has a high-level member of the Othrodox Church ACTUALLY admit that people with issues could have a HARDWARE problem (the hardware being their brains) and it's not some problem with demon possession or a person being just plain evil or anything like that. (and props to him for doing this, it's about time somebody admitted the truth!)
(I'd really like the people who oppose the forth-coming National Health-care bill to take a good listen to this...as they seem to be missing several points contained in this podcast.)
Behavioral problems are always treated as technical issues (HARDWARE issues) in machines/technology, but people aren't often given the same respect as machines when their HARDWARE starts failing. And if you ask me this is wrong!
Now I'm not denying the existence of God with this, I'm just saying that we humans are aren't treated with the same respect that our own machines get, and that's what is wrong with charging people for health-care!
The west is so messed up.
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God can work through medicine, including anti-depressants.
However, there's a gotcha, and nothing to do with God or the Orthodox Church. Psychiatrists and therapists offer treasure in a minefield: they can be helpful, and God's salvation can come through them, but there's nasty stuff you won't be warned about: therapists who do more harm than good, or powerful medications that do just what you don't need.
So let me clearly NOT say, \"If you had enough faith, you wouldn't need anti-depressants,\" but your initial note sounds like you've hit one of the bad spots in the minefield. Maybe you need another medication; maybe you need another doctor. And do try to pray; Orthodoxy is itself lifegiving to people with the struggles you describe, even if the \"total package\" solution is not Church alone, but includes medical care.
With love and prayer,
[url=http://JonathansCorner.com/]Christos Jonathan[/url]
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#4
My priest has studied psychology a fair bit. He was always ready to cite the effects of \"chemicals\" on our brains and behaviors. Understanding the physical basis for what we're up against can help in our struggles, I find.
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Elena Ribarevski
#9
Through the prayers of St. Naum of Ohrid, may you receive the proper diagnosis and treatment for your mental health issues.
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I am a pre-medicine student right now, and I understand a little about this issue. First, we as doctors must be carefu; when dealing with any sickness, because there is probably a spiritual root that is simply being manifested physically in the chemical world. For example, not enough fatty acids or carbohydrates in your diet can be a physical cause to depression. However, if you do not treat it spiritually working with the physical world, you may end up addicted to food. This does not solve the problem, but actually makes it worse. Yes, you may feel better by correcting certain aspects of your diet, but there is the danger of overcorrecting the problem, which is usually the case if the spiritual root is not also treated simultaeously. I could tell a patient, you need to do this to your diet to balance out your chemicals, and if the realize how good this makes them feal, they are likely to do too much of this and overcorrect the problem. To further demonstrate my point, I will point out that our brain is composed of chemicals called neurotransmitters. I am going to quote directly from a book called Food and Mood by Elizabeth Somer, M.A., R.D.: \"Until recently, scientists had identified only a few chemicals and hormones that regulated body and brain processes, including insulin, adrenaline, noradrenaline, and glucagon. But in the past 25 years the chemical story has become considerably more complex with hundreds of newly identified compounds that regulate everything from your mood and what you want to eat to whether or not you experience headaches or develop heart disease.\"
This is where things get difficult and this is why most psychologist will do more harm than good. Let me demonstrate how all of this relates. Too little of the neurotransmitter called norepinephrine can cause depression. Too much of the very same neurotransmitter can cause mania. Remember that I said earlier, not enough fatty acid or carbohydrates causes depression. Am I contradicting myself? No. There are several other chemicals that can cause it too. The danger should be obvious, but I will explain just in case. If your doctor treats the problem by giving you an exccess of the neurotransmitter norepinephrine and that is not the problem, if it is another chemical, it would result in mania, another mental disorder. Usually a proper diet and exercise is the best way to help deal with depression. Your body cannot produce vitamins. Are you providing vitamins in your food intake? You need a healthy balance of all 20 amino acids. Your body is likely to fix the problem without medication if you get plenty of red meat and vitamins in your diet. A well balanced diet is important. It would really be best to see a physician and specifically question him about your dietary intake. God mad our bodies capable of doing more than you realize. Remember, the more natural solution that you get to a medical problem the less chance of a negative effect. Always putting spiritual first, he created the physical and we can help the process. Actually the Apostle Paul did say that the physical is before the spiritual, so perhaps my comment about spiritual being first is wrong. Also, try jogging every morining. Studies have proven that anyone who exercises has an improvement on their mental health. If you never exercise, you are more likely to receive a mental disorder and medicine has been proven to rarely have a positive effect on mental health. Medically speaking I would personally stay away from ant-depressants, because I would be depressed by taking the anti-depressant! They do help some people, but the numbers are not convincing and they are VERY devided. If you would like, send me your dietary intake, and I will run an analysis on the chemical make up of your food and see if there is good reason to believe this is the root. I know people who starve themselves begin to see and hear things that are not real. Sleep deprivation can also cause this. Instead of thinking you are crazy and pumping yourself with a chemical that is causing more health problems, let us assume that even though you are eating you are probably not receiving certain important dietary neccessities that is resulting in voices because you have been deprived for such a long time. Exercise has been proven to work. Take me up on this and you will see.
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Fr. Germogen Tucker
#10
Greetings
Owing to the vast complexities of the field of scientific and medical research, it is very difficult to stay informed concerning the ethical implications of medical procedures. It is a complex and rapidly changing field. However, as Orthodox Christians, we have an approach that helps us to navigate our way, and that is the worldview of the Orthodox Church.
When a question or need arises which would involve major medical intervention in our lives, or as practitioners of medical/scientific research, we need to consider the following: How does this affect our salvation? Will any part of the process require us to sin, to one degree or another? Are we tampering with the divinely established order of His Creation? Is this process dependant on someone else committing sin? Does sin have to be committed in order for this process to even be possible? Does my having this process deprive someone or other of the possibility of receiving beneficial treatment?
All of these considerations will give us a foundation upon which we can make a decision in good conscience and in a God-pleasing manner.
One very good resourse is the book by Spyridon Logothetis "Depression, a Spiritual Guide.
Fr. Germogen
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Gordie Thomas
#11
As a retired psych R.N. and someone who has dealt with his own post-combat mental health issues under the guidance of both a medical practitioner and more than one father confessor, I feel compelled to point out that this has the potential of being a VERY dangerous thread.

None of us are your spiritual father and so none of us is in the position to give you specific advice or counsel for your specific situation.

We can talk in generalities and point you toward this resource and that resource, but the Orthodox Way is to embark in those directions ONLY under the guidance of a spiritual father. Will you take all of the guidance you've received here to your spiritual father for his instruction?

I have never read any church father (or Holy Scripture) directing us to do anything because we feel like doing it. On the contrary, we are repeatedly directed to "do the thing [we] do not want to do".

Many Orthodox Christians are not aware that we should not even undertake a fast, even if it is printed very clearly on our Orthodox Christian calendar, without first approaching our spiritual father for guidance in conjunction with confession. The discussion may be quite brief and we may end up being instructed to pray exactly as we have been praying and fasting as we have been fasting and giving alms as we have been giving and doing good works as we have been doing, but we will be going forth with instructions which call for OBEDIENCE, which is greater by far than self-devised good intentions.

Further, it is truly irresponsible and dangerous for anyone in this thread to suggest that you simply not take prescribed medication and "put your trust in The Lord".

Ask your spiritual father if he is willing/able to come to a session with your medical practitioner. I doubt if the two will see eye-to-eye concerning your personal situation, but it would give your spiritual father a chance to discern your practitioner's diagnosis and treatment intent without it being filtered by you.

Bottom line FOR ME: medication may kill my body, but absence from Divine Liturgy may kill my soul.

If you see The Eucharist as central to your salvation, through the guidance of your spiritual father, then even if your life is filled with all types of trials until the day you die, my understanding of The Orthodox Way is that you WILL prevail if you remain humble and obedient.

Lord have mercy!
Last update on May 8, 10:39 am by Gordie Thomas.
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