Convert-itis

I\'m not saying one should always listen to converts but something to keep in mind when suggesting to ignore converts it that there is a time when none of us were baptized. There are many times when those who are baptized are vain and ignore others. I can name a number of faithul converts and unfaithful \"natives\" but saying it does nothing other than to drive a divide between the two that are actually one. Next time you suggest ignoring converts, you might want to think about what kind of wedge you are driving.

Amen. While grace comes at baptism/chrismation, cradles have to go through the same personal work as converts and they run the risk of falling into error as well. There may be an advantage *IF* everything is done right, but there are pitfalls aplenty for both. Last time I checked the prayer of St. Ephraim would apply.

I think it\'s not ignoring, exactly... but like when you\'re a university senior, and you look at the freshmen who just discovered beer... just kinda knowing that whatever you say will not discourage them from their new fascination, it will just lose it\'s appeal after a while... I found the real part of being orthodox started coming when I lost my convert zeal I know a guy at church who is super super smart, a new convert... he\'s read zillions of books more than I have... but he struggles so hard... he just \"doesn\'t get it\"... that understanding that only comes with time... and I guess I\'m not much of one to talk, since I was only baptized a couple years ago.

Amen to Robotom! I\'ve seen it over and over and over! It\'s sort of an \"Orthodox adolescence.\"

After a few years, most people - except those whose less-than-Orthodox mindset is reinforced by one of those all-convert parishes - grow up a bit spiritually and most of them are eventually very embarrassed by some of the things they said and did in the first five to ten years after they were received into the Church.

\"Crazy convert\" behavior also annoys long-term converts. We\'ve seen the patterns repeatedly, just as we\'ve seen the patterns in our adolescent children, and we just have to be patient with the common undesirable behaviors. It is nonetheless a kindness to do what we can to help new converts get past that pesky \"awkward age.\"

We have two fathers in our parish. A greek one and a german (converted). I love and regard them both. But I must confess, I love the greek one a little more. as new converts we tend to be over zealous. So please be patient with us! But fortunately we are only a few converts in a mostly ethnic parish. Maybe this will help us.

I\'ve found that I love them both! The Converts for their child-like excitement and how everything seems new and wonderful in their eyes, and the born Orthodox for how they have woven Orthodoxy into their life so well that it is their life! We all have paths to follow, God brings us all in different ways. Converts or not, we are all brought to Orthodoxy by God\'s grace. We are meant to help each other patiently, and with love. What a glorious thing!

I chose to become Orthodox, by God\'s grace. That is all I have to say. It sums up my belief, my practice and my church membership. I do not give a gnat\'s wisker what the cradle Orthodox think of me, nor what the other converts want from me. I was very active in my parish. No longer. That aspect of the church I do not like. It seems like politics to me. It got me no where in the pursuit of my faith. In fact it detracted. I am disappointed with fallen man\'s problems in and with the church. It is not a perfect organization. It is God made but man administered therefore there will be problems. I am here like a patient in the hospital, I need to heal my soul and renew my life in our Lord, all else seems to be irrelevant. Our church is building a new building, very stressful for our poor priest as well as the congregation, yet we all seem to get to the basics of our faith each time we have God present in worship. Ten years in the church and still struggling, isn\'t that what our Lord promised us, hope in Him but not perfection on earth.

Worth reading, by cradle and convert alike: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1403441/posts

I have what I call convert rants. You have to let us be excited as we\'re thrilled to have found something good. I almost like the comparison of a senior looking at freshmen discovering beer for the first time, and I would go a step further with that analogy. It\'s like being a beer drinker but discovering a really good porter or stout. Orthodoxy is, say, Guinness, while the options are Coors or Natural Light. My conversion has been a ten year journey with hardships along the way. I\'m old enough, been a Christian long enough, to know that \"feeling\" the rush of new love won\'t last. I thank God for the spiritual fathers that I have who will guide me through the ups and downs. I do appreciate your comments and those of others. Blessings

I think we need to get over the distinction. My priest once told me that you\'re only a convert until you are officially an Orthodox Christian, and then you are an Orthodox Christian. We are all born pagans, and we need to get over this thing of calling people converts for the rest of their lives. He cited the example of an elderly gentleman he once met who told him he was a convert. When Father asked when he was received into the Church, the man said, \"Almost 50 years ago.\" About which, Father exclaimed, \"Good God, how long can it be before he stops being convert and starts being Orthodox Christian?\" (you have to recite that phrase with a Russian accent) It\'s a good question. I once met a couple (at a funeral dinner) who didn\'t twig to the fact that I was not a cradle Orthodox, and conversing with me they held forth about how converts can\'t be trusted. I\'ve met any number of people who regard me differently after they find out that I\'m not cradle Orthodox. The only thing that changed, between their previous belief and the moment of revelation that I\'m a \"convert\" is their attitude. It had nothing to do with me. I\'m not a convert anymore. I am, and hopefully by the grace of God always will be, simply an Orthodox Christian.

I liked what Fr. Stephen Freeman says of himself: \"I\'m here to tell you I was born Orthodox, but lived in schism with myself for 44 years!\"

I really like this thread. I reread my earlier post and am now impressed with how curt I seem in my response. the struggle with family and friends for me was acute when I converted. It was a hard time for my family especially. Here I was in heaven and they did not understand. They still do not, nearly six years later. I have experienced humility in my faith, I understand that this path is difficult. I am not here to change the church, but have the church change me in my continnuing struggles. Now let me get real here, the struggle is one that I enjoy, I live and experience daily. I am ashamed that I have made so little progress in my theosis. I try to be more Christ like, God has granted my undivided love and I participate with him in my exercise of free will. My free will often leads me to the sinful side, but His love always brings me back. The hospital is made of many wards, I am just out of intensive care, at least I think so this week. The thrill of being a convert is still there, but it is more mature, but in many ways more demanding. Am I up to its demands, by God\'s love I hope my free will gives way in the correct way. I have said enough.

Sounds like Fr Vasily (of Onion Dome fame)! Is outrage! :grin: :grin:

OrthodoxRose makes a fine point. I recently (4 yrs ago) shifted into Orthodoxy and I have never settled with the term convert, though it is used quite a bit where I worship. I think we only have a handful of adults who were born into Orthodoxy - most of our \"cradle orthodox\" are under 20 and were baptized with, or after their newly illumined parents. We have a lot of adult shifters who found the true Church midway through their life journey Although I agree that newly illumined adults who have only recently shifted their thinking tend to be a bit over-zealous (I like the beer analogy), sometimes their enthusiasm is good for parish life and it encourages all to grow and not let their own journey go stale. Both the newly illumined and the seasoned sojourner must be mindful to avoid the temptation to compare and then condescend, patronize, or judge one another. Lord have mercy on us all.

I was Chrismated today (by Fr Stephen Freeman, no less, who told me about being in schism with himself last Tues during my first confession, LOL!!). Please be patient with many of us. Being in the \"fullness of faith\" can be a heady experience for us, like when that Guinness hits our head. I don\'t know about \"convert-itis\", but I do know about shrinking back, hiding in the corner, and running for the door as soon as Liturgy is finished because of fear and insecurity. It will take a long time for me to \"prove\" myself, I guess. Do we get a handicap?