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So, living in a foreign country always gives rise to strange questions about fasting... I don\'t mean place like canada or western eurpope - or europeanized western style countries.... but I mean, honest to goodness foreign countries.... the question of the evening (I guess it\'s morning where most of you are)... Is pig skin meat?..... it\'s like a football (footballs are made of pigskin)... you wouldn\'t consider BBQ football to be meat, because it\'s a football... but here, you CAN eat bbq pig skin.... how about blood sausage? it\'s just gives rise to the kind of silly practice of \\"eating a hamburger is wrong, but eating a hamburger with a tofu patty made to taste remarkably similar to meat is acceptable\\".... is it? is it better to eat meat and feel bad about it? is it better to eat veggies and feel triumphant? is it better to not be concerned if it\'s meat or not, and just eat in moderation? just, in a foreign country, sometimes, or, rather often, there are eating customs, and lack of orthodox culture, that make such questions come to the forefront.... for example... Korea has a strong drinking culture... and it could be extremely rude to deny a small drink from your superior... or not accept their invitation to BBQ dinner - no matter if it\'s the fasting season or not... you could find yourself out of business, quite quickly.... whether from being fired, ostracized, or just lack of clients from your lack of hospitality. so, the epistles this week, and the previous, were quite meaningful to me, and maybe others, as well... please forgive us, who have little choice in our menu.... we don\'t mean to make discomfort for those of you eating only bread and water I guess I had no real direction for this thread... except to share some difficulties about fasting - and about some occasional (or maybe frequent) exceptions you have experienced, or exhibited by the saints themselves... not as a means to circumvent our call to the fast... but not to despair of our shortcomings.
all good questions. No good answer, other than ask your spiritual father. Of course he may be in the US and unaware of the Korean culture customs, but I know you have a great Greek bishop there that can answere all the questions properly.
I know my path :-) but I was just posing the question to people on the site to turn over in their minds..
[b]it\'s just gives rise to the kind of silly practice of \\"eating a hamburger is wrong, but eating a hamburger with a tofu patty made to taste remarkably similar to meat is acceptable\\".... is it?[/b] Yes, you\'re still eating \\"meat\\" per se....so you lose the spirit of fasting by focusing on the letter. [b]is it better to eat meat and feel bad about it?[/b] If you skip here and there, repent and realize we are only humans. But don\'t beat yourself about it. Breaking the fast just so you can \\"feel bad\\" about it later = wrong [b]is it better to eat veggies and feel triumphant?[/b] Worse than not fasting at all. You\'re being Phariseeistic about your fasting. [b]is it better to not be concerned if it\'s meat or not, and just eat in moderation?[/b] Eat moderately anyways and do your best not to eat meat. And ultimately \\"Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man\\" ALONG WITH \\"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.\\" My layman\'s POV on the issue
I am just a catachumen from a protestant background., with a lot to learn. I can see some of the reasons behind fasting, but if one tries to make it too legalistic, I agree with the other posters that that is not good.
one of the most striking things a priest told me about Lent... \\"fasting is not a body killer... it\'s a passion killer\\" just something interesting to think over whilst considering replacing milk with soy milk - it seems there is no point in such a substitution.
Keep us informed, if you please, Robotom as to how you work this out. This lent is corporate also, we are in this Life together.
[quote] [b]michaelc wrote:[/b] Keep us informed, if you please, Robotom as to how you work this out. This lent is corporate also, we are in this Life together.[/quote] so far not so good, I confess. Only a week since meatfare, and failures include: -pig spine -fried chicken -blood sausage -pig feet -and steamed chicken but none of those menu options were my choice... mostly the choice of my seniors... so i try to eat less of it, dismiss it as being something to keep up my strength... and on my own I choose something more fast-appropriate (considering many every-day korean foods are appropriate for fasting...) but I\'d prefer to inform people of my failings rather than my adherence to the rules - lest I get a high opinion of myself.
Here is a quote from or church\'s news letter. \\"... There are variations to this fast for a variety of reasons including health, age, children, travel and living in a non-Orthodox country. For variation questions, speak with one of our clergy. But remember, it is better to eat meat than to devour your brother or sister. \\" I had a priest remind me of that while traveling last week. I forgot and picked up hamburgers instead of veggie burgers (which taste nothing like meat) for our family. He knows we are fairly new converts, but I\'m sure he would have acted kindly toward anyone. Lisa in Lakewood(CO)
Fast in secret so your Father will see you in secret and reward you openly. I do not fast outside of either my home and Orthodox events.
[quote] [b]robotom wrote:[/b] So, living in a foreign country always gives rise to strange questions about fasting... I don\'t mean place like canada or western eurpope - or europeanized western style countries.... but I mean, honest to goodness foreign countries.... the question of the evening (I guess it\'s morning where most of you are)... Is pig skin meat?..... it\'s like a football (footballs are made of pigskin)... you wouldn\'t consider BBQ football to be meat, because it\'s a football... but here, you CAN eat bbq pig skin.... how about blood sausage? it\'s just gives rise to the kind of silly practice of \\"eating a hamburger is wrong, but eating a hamburger with a tofu patty made to taste remarkably similar to meat is acceptable\\".... is it? is it better to eat meat and feel bad about it? is it better to eat veggies and feel triumphant? is it better to not be concerned if it\'s meat or not, and just eat in moderation? just, in a foreign country, sometimes, or, rather often, there are eating customs, and lack of orthodox culture, that make such questions come to the forefront.... for example... Korea has a strong drinking culture... and it could be extremely rude to deny a small drink from your superior... or not accept their invitation to BBQ dinner - no matter if it\'s the fasting season or not... you could find yourself out of business, quite quickly.... whether from being fired, ostracized, or just lack of clients from your lack of hospitality. so, the epistles this week, and the previous, were quite meaningful to me, and maybe others, as well... please forgive us, who have little choice in our menu.... we don\'t mean to make discomfort for those of you eating only bread and water I guess I had no real direction for this thread... except to share some difficulties about fasting - and about some occasional (or maybe frequent) exceptions you have experienced, or exhibited by the saints themselves... not as a means to circumvent our call to the fast... but not to despair of our shortcomings.[/quote] For the most part (last I checked), if someone offers you something non-Lenten it\'s okay to take it. That is, if it would be considered to rude. I really think it depends on the spirit of it. Yes, I would consider blood sausage \\"meat\\" because it comes from an animal (no meat, no dairy -- I think it would just go with that theme), as well as pig skin. As it is said in the Gospel, when you\'re fasting, keep it \\"secret.\\" Don\'t boast. So I would say it can be worse -- at least in some ways -- to be prideful about one\'s fasting than to eat meat and then feel guilty (or, if you\'re a vegitarian like me, guzzle milk or whatnot). Being prideful like that is a sin, whereas breaking the fast is not (not a grave one at least). I mean, yes, there have been cases where fasting is nearly impossible. I was in Russia (Siberia, specifically, and doing work) over the summer, didn\'t know enough Russian, and felt rude enough already by saying I can\'t eat meat (again, vegetarian) that it would have been far, far, far too difficult to keep the Dormition Fast. For the most part, veggies had dairy (at least where we were); it was hard enough to get things without meat. Likewise, if you\'re a young child (nursing or whatnot) or in too poor of a condition to fast, the Church says that not fasting is, well, fine. Essentially, you do what you can.
God, I thank You that I am not like other menextortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this robotom or jonan74.Bloodsausage, yuck.. I fast twice a week;and all during lent, I give tithes of all that I possess. I load up on coffee,chocolate and cigarettes though. your righteous servant-
haha, tongue in cheek publican and pharisee - love it ^^
1. New converts from Western Christianity tend to bring with them some very rigid, legalistic Western attitudes, and apply them to fasting. With time and experience and spiritual guidance, they get over it. 2. Ironically, I get the makings of many of my better lenten meals from my local H Mart (a big international Korean grocery, etc., chain). I only eat kimchee during Lent! 3. Kindness and respect for others always trump fasting. 4. And most important - how anyone else fasts is none of our business.
MariaM
[quote] [b]VaDave wrote:[/b] Fast in secret so your Father will see you in secret and reward you openly. I do not fast outside of either my home and Orthodox events.[/quote]
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