So, living in a foreign country always gives rise to strange questions about fasting... I don\'t mean place like canada or western eurpope - or europeanized western style countries.... but I mean, honest to goodness foreign countries....
the question of the evening (I guess it\'s morning where most of you are)...
Is pig skin meat?..... it\'s like a football (footballs are made of pigskin)... you wouldn\'t consider BBQ football to be meat, because it\'s a football... but here, you CAN eat bbq pig skin....
how about blood sausage?
it\'s just gives rise to the kind of silly practice of \\"eating a hamburger is wrong, but eating a hamburger with a tofu patty made to taste remarkably similar to meat is acceptable\\".... is it?
is it better to eat meat and feel bad about it?
is it better to eat veggies and feel triumphant?
is it better to not be concerned if it\'s meat or not, and just eat in moderation?
just, in a foreign country, sometimes, or, rather often, there are eating customs, and lack of orthodox culture, that make such questions come to the forefront....
for example... Korea has a strong drinking culture... and it could be extremely rude to deny a small drink from your superior... or not accept their invitation to BBQ dinner - no matter if it\'s the fasting season or not... you could find yourself out of business, quite quickly.... whether from being fired, ostracized, or just lack of clients from your lack of hospitality.
so, the epistles this week, and the previous, were quite meaningful to me, and maybe others, as well... please forgive us, who have little choice in our menu.... we don\'t mean to make discomfort for those of you eating only bread and water
I guess I had no real direction for this thread... except to share some difficulties about fasting - and about some occasional (or maybe frequent) exceptions you have experienced, or exhibited by the saints themselves... not as a means to circumvent our call to the fast... but not to despair of our shortcomings.
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MichaelC Prout
#16
Keep us informed, if you please, Robotom as to how you work this out.
This lent is corporate also, we are in this Life together.
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michaelc wrote:
Keep us informed, if you please, Robotom as to how you work this out.
This lent is corporate also, we are in this Life together.
so far not so good, I confess.
Only a week since meatfare, and failures include:
-pig spine
-fried chicken
-blood sausage
-pig feet
-and steamed chicken
but none of those menu options were my choice... mostly the choice of my seniors... so i try to eat less of it, dismiss it as being something to keep up my strength... and on my own I choose something more fast-appropriate (considering many every-day korean foods are appropriate for fasting...)
but I\'d prefer to inform people of my failings rather than my adherence to the rules - lest I get a high opinion of myself.
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Here is a quote from or church\'s news letter. \\"... There are variations to this fast for a variety of reasons including health, age, children, travel and living in a non-Orthodox country. For variation questions, speak with one of our clergy. But remember, it is better to eat meat than to
devour your brother or sister. \\"
I had a priest remind me of that while traveling last week. I forgot and picked up hamburgers instead of veggie burgers (which taste nothing like meat) for our family. He knows we are fairly new converts, but I\'m sure he would have acted kindly toward anyone.
Lisa in Lakewood(CO)
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#18
Fast in secret so your Father will see you in secret and reward you openly. I do not fast outside of either my home and Orthodox events.
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#1
robotom wrote:
So, living in a foreign country always gives rise to strange questions about fasting... I don't mean place like canada or western eurpope - or europeanized western style countries.... but I mean, honest to goodness foreign countries....
the question of the evening (I guess it's morning where most of you are)...
Is pig skin meat?..... it's like a football (footballs are made of pigskin)... you wouldn't consider BBQ football to be meat, because it's a football... but here, you CAN eat bbq pig skin....
how about blood sausage?
it's just gives rise to the kind of silly practice of \"eating a hamburger is wrong, but eating a hamburger with a tofu patty made to taste remarkably similar to meat is acceptable\".... is it?
is it better to eat meat and feel bad about it?
is it better to eat veggies and feel triumphant?
is it better to not be concerned if it's meat or not, and just eat in moderation?
just, in a foreign country, sometimes, or, rather often, there are eating customs, and lack of orthodox culture, that make such questions come to the forefront....
for example... Korea has a strong drinking culture... and it could be extremely rude to deny a small drink from your superior... or not accept their invitation to BBQ dinner - no matter if it's the fasting season or not... you could find yourself out of business, quite quickly.... whether from being fired, ostracized, or just lack of clients from your lack of hospitality.
so, the epistles this week, and the previous, were quite meaningful to me, and maybe others, as well... please forgive us, who have little choice in our menu.... we don't mean to make discomfort for those of you eating only bread and water
I guess I had no real direction for this thread... except to share some difficulties about fasting - and about some occasional (or maybe frequent) exceptions you have experienced, or exhibited by the saints themselves... not as a means to circumvent our call to the fast... but not to despair of our shortcomings.
For the most part (last I checked), if someone offers you something non-Lenten it\'s okay to take it. That is, if it would be considered to rude.
I really think it depends on the spirit of it. Yes, I would consider blood sausage \\"meat\\" because it comes from an animal (no meat, no dairy -- I think it would just go with that theme), as well as pig skin.
As it is said in the Gospel, when you\'re fasting, keep it \\"secret.\\" Don\'t boast. So I would say it can be worse -- at least in some ways -- to be prideful about one\'s fasting than to eat meat and then feel guilty (or, if you\'re a vegitarian like me, guzzle milk or whatnot). Being prideful like that is a sin, whereas breaking the fast is not (not a grave one at least).
I mean, yes, there have been cases where fasting is nearly impossible. I was in Russia (Siberia, specifically, and doing work) over the summer, didn\'t know enough Russian, and felt rude enough already by saying I can\'t eat meat (again, vegetarian) that it would have been far, far, far too difficult to keep the Dormition Fast. For the most part, veggies had dairy (at least where we were); it was hard enough to get things without meat. Likewise, if you\'re a young child (nursing or whatnot) or in too poor of a condition to fast, the Church says that not fasting is, well, fine. Essentially, you do what you can.
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MichaelC Prout
#19
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haha, tongue in cheek publican and pharisee - love it ^^
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Marie Moffitt
#6
1. New converts from Western Christianity tend to bring with them some very rigid, legalistic Western attitudes, and apply them to fasting. With time and experience and spiritual guidance, they get over it.
2. Ironically, I get the makings of many of my better lenten meals from my local H Mart (a big international Korean grocery, etc., chain). I only eat kimchee during Lent!
3. Kindness and respect for others always trump fasting.
4. And most important - how anyone else fasts is none of our business.
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VaDave wrote:
Fast in secret so your Father will see you in secret and reward you openly. I do not fast outside of either my home and Orthodox events.
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VaDave wrote:
Fast in secret so your Father will see you in secret and reward you openly. I do not fast outside of either my home and Orthodox events.
sorry for the initial post without my two cents...
Ive often pondered this in my own situation and have had mixed feelings. I asked my spiritual father who advised me that I should uphold our faith and to fast even if it meant refusing and or telling your host you cant have it. I suppose you can also pick and chose items you eat if you have a choice without saying anything thereby not feeling you are \\"fasting in the open\\"
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of course... when people put the choice on me - usually I say things like \\"oh, I like spaghetti!\\" or \\"oh, how about rice cake soup, or curry rice tonight?\\"
in that way, I feel like it\'s my fast, and not a pushing of my practice onto others... because almost none of my friends are orthodox.... because in a city of 10.2 million people, there is only one cathedral of about 400 people... rest of the city is protestant/catholic, buddhist, or atheist/other
sometimes I feel like the whole \\"well, I can\'t eat meat this time of year\\" thing seems like show-boating to those outside of the faith, rather than witnessing to them.
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We should fast in secret, but that doesn\'t mean not fasting. If you\'re given nonfasting foods by a host, you eat it. That doesn\'t mean that if you go to a BBQ at your friend\'s house, you eat a hamburger just because it was offered at the party. If you\'re at a cookout and you fill a burger bun with tomatoes and lettuce and pickles, most people won\'t notice that you\'re not eating the meat. If they do, you can always say that you\'re trying to eat healthier by reducing your meat and increasing your veggies (they don\'t have to know that it\'s for your spiritual health). In most cases, you can do something similar without drawing attention to yourself. With so many food allergies and preferences and the rise of vegetarianism, it\'s usually not even commented on in my experience.
Of course, if as the original poster, you would be offending your brothers by not eating, then, out of love, you eat.
Still, it is good to consult your spiritual father. Especially for those of you who are beginning your first Lent: talk to your priest! You wouldn\'t expect to go to the gym and perform like an Olympian if you\'d been sedentary your entire life. You would hire a trainer or a coach and listen to him. Don\'t expect that you can design your own fasting discipline and be successful either.
And I wholeheartedly agree with MariaM. Don\'t be legalistic or rigid. The fast is for your benefit and should be approached with love and joy.
In Christ,
Kim
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Jenn Rademacher
#4
If someone offers us a non-fast type food, I believe it is not wrong to accept it. God knows what is going on. What we do in secret is more meaningful.
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Jenn Rademacher
#3
sorry, this entry is just to subscribe to the thread.. :-)
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MichaelC Prout
#2
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