shepdog17 wrote:
Who told you that "Orthodoxy is supposed to be the one and only church that imparts grace" ??? Only an Orthodox fanatic would make a statement such as this.
I was taught that the Orthodox Church contains the "fullness" of the true faith .... 100% of the pie so to speak. All other religions, to one degree or another, consist of less than this fullness .... whether it be 90, 80, 50% ect. Also, "Grace" is a GIFT from God .... I would dare to say that grace, True Grace, can be dispensed to individuals who would belong to a religion that has 0% of the pie.
In addition, it was discerning of you to make mention of "demonic deception" on this topic.
There is a difference between God of His own will imparting grace to His creation regardless of religion (we all need grace even to breathe or blink or even eat a meal) and sacramental grace that is unique to the True Church. Demonic deception does indeed exist, and I am hoping that I am not myself being deceived by thinking the way I am thinking. Even Orthodox believers are told to beware of the enemy and not to believe your own thoughts. There are thousands of examples of false grace that are none other than obvious demonic deception, like the tongues speaking pentecostals, because it elevates the pride and throws the adherants into delusion and seperates them from salvation. My case as far as True grace in regards to protestant is based on miracles that I doubt the enemy would or even could do. A miracle that points to the Trinity or incarnation of Christ specifically regarding the body and blood of Jesus Christ healing people is hard to imagine to be any sort of deception. Jesus did say, \"Many will come in my name and perform signs and wonder that if possible they will deceive even the elect.\" (I am paraphrasing from memory). Just because something looks like a miracle or grace does not make it grace. Many times God's goodness reins over pagans, but I would say that any miracles that happen are almost always demonic delusion to keep them from the TRUE God. The antichrist will also mimic many miracles of Christ and impart a FALSE grace to deceive the nations. We CANNOT believe that this unique grace is anywhere except in the circle of Christians. Arius' guts spilled out for denying the Divinity of Jesus Christ. I would say this is a warning against such beliefs, ESPECIALLY if we know better. God is good though. A Roman persecuter named Trajan was accepted into heaven by the prayers of St. Gregory the Dialogist. He was a pagan and a murderer who sentenced people to death for not renouncing Christ. God's mercy ran deep and His Grace according to His will was given to one who was not Christian. God can and will do as He pleases. My question is that if this special grace that is a sacramental grace may also be among protestants and catholics. It is an entirely different thing for a saint to be incorrupt. That seems to be a special grace given only to certain elite saints. There are incorrupt Orthodox saints, but also Catholic saints. I also mentioned some stunning things that are among the evangelicals that I simply have a problem with labeling as demonic deception. There simply seems to be atleast a small indication that grace is there. The grace that is unique to the church.
