Bait n\' Switch

If it will still be free for minors, you will see a lot of people revising their birthdates.

What are you talking about! I am really 6! ;-)

I am so very sorry this site turned out the way it is going to. It meant so much to me because it was what i could afford and was about friends and Orthodoxy, not money. I will have to leave because although the price is not that large for some,it is impossible for someone on disability who can not afford to grt out of the house very seldom because of money. I am not mad, i am so very sad. Elizabeth.

this is a crying shame, when i saw the email i was devastated and thought the same thing that gerakas mentioned. since when do we have to pay to learn about Orthodoxy? this shouldn’t be happening. Yes this \"baby\" called OC is growing and needs to be maintained but there are other ways in doing so. Lets all try finding an alternative to this. I was starting to like this forum

Personally...I\'ve met a lot of people I otherwise wouldn\'t. I can\'t afford to pay a subscription fee. If there\'s payment required, I\'ll be in the exodus.

I\'m a minor, so I guess it would be free, but if this is the direction that OC is going, I won\'t be sticking around.

neither will i

Often times I think business opinions are worthless, but here\'s a little educated guess going on here, and I realize I could be wrong: There are apparently 4000 members here (a number I\'ve heard thrown around, I could be wrong). So at best 4000 x 5 = $20,000 I would like to contend that\'s not going to happen, just based on some responses I\'m reading here. My experience based on past turnovers in business plans is to expect around 1% in conversions or 40 x 5 = $200 So yea $200 is the bottom line. (and I could be wrong) Ok lets be a little more optimistic, lets say 10% conversion, 400 x 5 = $2000 a month. A good living to run this site (and there is nothing wrong with wanting to make a living for so much work). But lets try and be a little more positive here, if I might propose a creative solution. If everyone would just go to church, mention the problem and if we could get several churches to donate say $50 a month to this site and mention it in their monthly bulletin, not only could more revenue be derived for ownership, but more members brought about as well. Of course there are problems with this, granted I\'m guessing on some figures here, and I\'d imagine there\'d be some resistance towards donating or promoting a non church \"owned\" \"ministry\" (if you\'d allow the terms). Think about it, the power is in your hands to at least try.

I support the new policy in charging $5 a month. The costs in starting & maintaining a service such as this are considerable, both financially and in terms of time. I don\'t expect it to be done for free. I don\'t feel cable TV is worth the expense, so for over 20 years I have been using rabbit ears. I believe Starbuck\'s is a rip-off at around $4.00 a day plus the time wasted standing in line. I don\'t have an iPod and rarely buy music because the quality of the offerings is poor. I don\'t wear expensive jeans. I don\'t buy video game consoles and the games to go along with them. I can go on and on with examples of luxuries I forgo that a very large portion of the population consider to be necessities. I do give generously to my church, both financially and with labor. Five dollars a month is a bargain. Five dollars isn\'t that hard to come up with for something I enjoy and find informative. If I knew someone with limited financial means, and doesn\'t have luxuries like cable TV, iPods and video games, and wanted to be active here, I would seriously consider buying them a subscription. For those suggesting that a donation model be used, why should 10% of the people carry the load for the other 90%? I feel my 10% number is probably a high number. My main request now that they are going to charge a fee is that they buy a SSL certificate so we can have secure log-in. Using this service is a luxury and is voluntary. So the way I see it the $5 a month is also voluntary. At no point did I expect this service to be offered for free forever. What I did fear was a business model that depended on advertising. If obnoxious bells-and-whistles-and-sirens-pop-up advertising were to appear, I\'d be outta here in a second. A five dollar a month model is a relief.

I don\'t think the question is whether Ninos should get some financial support for this ministry. We all seem to agree that he deserves it. The question is whether charging a subscription fee is the best option. Frankly, from a simple business perspective, it doesn\'t seem like a great idea. Whatever your feelings, there will certainly be a dropoff in members, and the members are the reason to join the site to begin with. And since this IS a ministry for the benefit of the Orthodox Church, it makes sense that Orthodox philanthropists interested in unity and outreach would support it. Ninos has indicated that he doesn\'t want to ask for donations so that he doesn\'t take away money from other worthy causes. But as someone \"in the know,\" so to speak, I can promise you that no worthy causes will be neglected if people with means choose to support the mission of the OC. There are LOTS of Orthodox people with money who want to support work like this. They should be asked. But again, I don\'t think the question is whether money should be raised for the OC. Rather, it\'s whether subscriptions are the most appropriate and effective means of raising that money. And from the standpoint of both business and mission, I don\'t think they are.

. . . . Well, this is a mistake. No social networking site I am aware of charges its members for basic access. There are reasons for this. The people who contribute the most have more time than money. Every additional member makes effort invested in the site by participants a better value, so it\'s best to pull in as many as possible. No one is going to class a social network among his necessities. The modern internet economy has accustomed the entire under-25 demographic, and most of the rest of the world, to expect basic services for free. There are a lot of social networks, forums, and so on out there. . . . . I could go on and on, but I think the market speaks eloquently enough here. For every person who writes in, there are several others who won\'t bother. Personally, I have friends who I know are not bothering and simply plan to let their accounts lapse. . . . . Why does Ninos think OC is not a ministry that deserves contributions? That is the weirdest thing in the announcement. He is providing a service to Orthodox isolated in their own cultures; OC is a consequence of America being a mission field. . . . . Well, he can\'t doubt this is a ministry now — not with people writing in about how they can\'t afford another expense. And for every one who writes in, there are many others. Yes, OC should be soliciting funds. . . . . And it should have ads, if that is what we need. How is it, exactly, that buying and selling is not \"in-line with an Orthodox Christian environment\"? Unless Orthodox own the businesses — then it\'s fine? . . . . Now, this needs to be said if users are going to be asked for money: OC is a sub-par user-experience. We all appreciate the hard work that has gone into making it as good as it is, but facts are facts. . . . . The interface is clunky. There are almost no privacy controls. You cannot be notified when you receive new messages (isn\'t that irritating?). I see group messages presented in a single, two-inch-wide column. I have been trying to change my password for months. The message composition screen is maddening: at the moment I just compose in raw HTML code! . . . . I am not sure what the \"SNAPP!\" is that we are invited to \"Manage\" at the top of our home screen, but clicking on it provides an obscure error message. . . . . Only in the world of Orthodoxy — where people are grateful to pay $25 for a badly translated, typo-ridden two-hundred-page book with no index — would anyone dream of charging for this. . . . . We\'re all happy that OC exists, of course — but it won\'t much longer under this plan, I don\'t think. I study theology at an Orthodox institution, a university in Greece, so I\'m not sure if I\'ll qualify as a \"seminarian.\" If not, I\'ll be hard-pressed to justify another regular expense, even a minor one. (And I tell you what — if sixteen cents a day is such a small amount of money, is there anyone who wants to give *me* sixteen cents a day?) I don\'t know many students who could do that. How many students have paid subscriptions to *anything*? . . . . Reverse course, Ninos! What you are doing is a big mistake. I don\'t say that from ingratitude or a snotty sense of entitlement — it\'s just the truth. . . . . Begin to think of OC as the ministry that it is, and seek funds for it accordingly. [P.S. This is a cross-posting. Please forgive: since this is the most active thread on this issue, I am doing it just this once.]

Ninos has posted a helpful message on [url=http://my.orthodoxcircle.com/groups/KEEP OC FREE]the \"KEEP OC FREE\" group[/url] group. It reads as follows: Let me repeat that: So, let me state that I am open to viable alternatives that present themselves within the next couple of months. If we can secure adequate funding that can sustain our operations for the immediate and long term future, there will not be any subscriptions. This all seems reasonable. Subscriptions are the wrong way to deal with this problem, but it is a problem, and there\'s no one else to fix it but us. \"Ask not what OC can do for you\" etc. I suggest we all go to the donations page and put up whatever we can right now. I know that may seem like a waste — since if subscriptions are implemented the site may very well not survive — but let\'s do it as an act of faith. Include a note that this is to help fund OC while they try to work out alternative funding methods. It takes time (and money) to form a tax-exempt organization, and time and man-hours to approach donors and apply for grants. Do it, say you did it, and ask others to do it. This seems like a time when the left hand ought to know what the right hand is doing. If you\'ve can\'t give cash, why not write Ninos and ask what money-saving volunteering you can do? This is a real ministry, and if it\'s worth having, surely it\'s worth our support!

But, wait — where\'s the donation page gone? Am I missing something? Maybe they thought it\'d be inappropriate considering the new plan. Well, I guess I\'ll ask for them to put it back.

Gerakas, I don\'t think you were active back then, but OC staff had shared with us and solicited opinions on their intend to have a subscription later on. It was very public. Please do not be so quick to get scandalized. (And besides, how can you? This is a lay Ministry it\'s not Church and it is not offering a Sacrament).

Yannis (Gerakas) i totally agree with what you ve noticed.