Joanna Joanna
#0
Over the past two weeks my girls have been taking tennis lessons at a local park. While waiting for the kids I struck up a conversation with an Indian woman who happens to be Muslim. She is well educated (she\'s an MD) and also seems to know about her faith. We began talking about opportunities for our children who perform at the gifted and talented level. I can\'t exactly remember how we got onto the subject of religion, but we did.
I tried to keep the conversation very open, accepting and non judgemental. I saw this as an opportunity to speak with a Muslim who was not a fanatic and possibly learn what the \"everyday\" Muslim believes. I asked a few questions \"Why don\'t you cover your head when your friend sitting next to you has not only her head covered, but the lower part of her face as well?\" (there was a friend of hers there in what I would call a western burqa). \"What do you mean you believe in the \'original\' Bible?\"
Anyway, this past Monday she came to lessons and gave me my very own copy of the Quran. ( do I really need one?) Again, I was trying to be polite, I thanked her and said I would look it over. (that may have been a lie, I\'m not sure yet if I\'ll open it or not) At this point things are still going ok.
Then we start to discuss heaven and hell. (here\'s where she started ticking me off) She said that the Quran says that God doesn\'t have partners. (ie the Holy Trinity) She said that God does not have parents, doesn\'t get hungy, doesn\'t sleep (Jesus).
The Quran says that anyone who belives in God having partners will go to hell. ( I guess the entire Christian religion has a one way ticket south!)
She quoted one or two things from Isaiah and Matthew, which I can\'t recall, because at that point I was getting and tuning her out at the same time, that she claimed foretold the coming of Mohammed.
We left on cordial terms. The girls had lessons again today. I chose not to stick around at the park and instead ran errands while the girls had their lessons. I will see this woman again on Friday.
So, regarding the above, what would you say to this woman given the opportunity? How would you defend not only Orthodoxy but Christianity as a whole? I want to be able to speak with confidence to this woman, but I just don\'t know how to articulate what I KNOW to be the Truth.
Any suggestions?
Jana
I
Be the first person to like this.
View All Previous Posts
CC
#7
I know it\'s not exactly the same thing, but it\'s like growing up in a state where there are two rival schools, like University of Alabama and Auburn University. The fans/graduates of both get along and discuss peacefully everything under the sun, but on football (and maybe one or two other subjects) the two sides are bitter enemies and usually it\'s the Alabama person who changes the subject because the Auburn person is so spiteful and angry (at least that\'s been my observation).
If you are strong in your conviction and desire to be \"friends\" with this woman, tell her to steer clear of trying to convert you as you will do likewise and you both will get along. If you are not strong and still want to be \"friends\" discuss weather and traffic woes. Be careful though, your lack of conviction will be noticed by your children and others and you, at one point or another, will be tested.
God bless you, and may you find the strength when that time occurs.
Be the first person to like this.
Andrew Colias
#8
This link, I feel, deals quite interestingly with the matter -- through the words of a 12th century monk: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/christ-muslim-debate.html
Be the first person to like this.
DS
#11
I would offer that it may not be a good idea to engage in theological debates, you will undoubtably run into walls.
Instead, take the good. I worked for one year with eighty muslims in a muslim country. We ate together, spoke together, trained together, and worked under dangerous conditions together. I trusted each and every one of them without reserve.
Let me caveat. They were not devout muslims except for a handful. They had the same vices that non-practicing christians have. But the base values I have found are the same. Mutual respect was the name of the game. They knew I was a christian and respected the values I believed in, making our two faiths a bond between us, not a seperation.
I freely admit that I had prejudices against muslims prior to meeting any and working with them. Not any more.
I never sought to engage in a discussion of our differences. Just find the common ground, it is there.
Be the first person to like this.
DS
#10
subscribe...
Be the first person to like this.
BM
#1
I know of someone who is now an Orthodox priest who was formerly a very pious Muslim. He came to speak to our church, and gave us a lot of good information. He not only explained the Muslim faith from a Christain perspective, but also from a MUSLIM perspective, which was very enlightening.
If you want his name and contact information, send me a message and I\'ll give it to you. I can\'t put it online, since many want to put him to death. He began his Christian journey when Christ came to him (in many a way like St. Paul) when he was studying the Quran in his small family hut. Since then he has converted thousands of Muslims to the Orthodox faith in places like Indonesia.
If you want you can begin to read about his life here (but note there is so much more that he can explain!)
http://www.friendsofindonesia.org/about/fr_daniel/#gpm1_1
Be the first person to like this.
BM
#12
He also has podcasts which might be helpful.
http://www.friendsofindonesia.org/news/podcast/
Be the first person to like this.
DS
#2
I am pretty sure I heard that priest speak at St. Ignatius in Franklin, Tennessee. He was a very interesting guy and gave a great talk.
Be the first person to like this.
GL
#13
Belated though this may be, here\'s my approach...
Yes! Read the Qur\'an! (I haven\'t, though I intend to). But I would say not to read it looking for flaws. Just read it. It can be both valuable and fascinating to learn more about what other peoples believe, even if you don\'t agree with them.
My second thought: don\'t defend your faith! There\'s no need to. You already trust that you\'re right to believe as you do, and God knows the truth, right? So what\'s there to defend? Most of the problems occur when we feel the need to \\"defend\\" our faith. This is an issue whether you’re dealing with Muslims, Jews, Catholics, Hindus, or anyone from another religion. Just be respectful, tolerant, and let things go where they go.
Anyway, hope that was helpful!
Be the first person to like this.
TC
#14
You have to explain things from the other\'s perspective not yours, and in language that is familiar to her. The info from Father Daniel someone else posted is the way to go.
Sometimes just saying, well I think you misunderstand, that\'s not how we think of ______ may be helpful.
Be the first person to like this.
GL
#15
Orthodox Makedonija:
Fanatics? Isn\'t that a bit extreme? Maybe in Macedonia it\'s that way, but in America some of the friendliest people I\'ve met have been Muslims. I\'ve talked with them about faith and haven\'t been attacked. If they\'re \\"fanatics,\\" it\'s not because they\'re Muslims, it\'s just because they\'re fanatics.
Many people could make the exact same case about Christians, with lots of historical and personal evidence to back them up: the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Conquistadors in the New World, the Puritan era in America, the Salem Witch Trials. I have a friend who\'s been exposed to some very harsh, preachy, \\"fire and brimstone\\" style Christianity. But does any of this make us \\"fanatics?\\" If there are Christian fanatics, which there are in spades, it\'s not because they\'re Christians. It\'s because they\'re extremists and generally crazy.
Be the first person to like this.
GL
#9
\\"The Christian history you quote... ...are the version that Protestants, Talmudists and Atheists promote. You have no case if you bring these pieces as \'evidence\'.\\"
Someone who\'s not Orthodox isn\'t really going to care, are they? To most non-Christians, Christianity tends to look pretty much the same all round. And this is just the history (which, we can\'t deny, is very true, very tragic, and did happen). But many people have a problem with the entire faith, which to their eyes can be interpreted as \\"fanatical\\" or \\"over-zealous.\\" Take the Old Testament. There are some harsh words and stories in there that seem quite extreme. We know the nuances of our faith and our teachings, but you can\'t expect some else to, can you?
Over all, my point is that Christian history is bloody, and most people\'s understanding of us is stained by that blood. Anyone who wanted to call us \\"fanatics\\" would have just as much ground as we do for call Muslims, or anyone else for that matter, \\"fanatics.\\" We should abstain from making any such judgments, but rather practice tolerance, respect, humility, and non-resistance.
Be the first person to like this.
GL
#16
Artintel:
My \\"interpretation\\" of our history is far beside the point. I\'m trying to point out how someone outside the faith would see us, and why. There\'s plenty of reasons why non-Christians have deep mistrust of us.
But since you insist upon my \\"interpretation,\\" here it is: the historical events/periods I listed earlier, and many more, should never have happened. Many of them were evil acts that used the Christian faith as shield to justify cruelty and bloodshed. This is not an extreme interpretation, and we should not try to defend or justify these mistakes. This isn\'t slanted textbook garble; it\'s history, uncomfortable as that may be.
I don\'t assume you haven\'t heard this before. But as Christians, we should not be protecting this or those who where/are responsible.
Bottom line: Islam is no more fanatical than Christianity, regardless of the actions of its people. We have no right to pass judgment when our own history is so bloody.
Be the first person to like this.
GL
#17
\\"Needless to say, you still haven\'t adressed the issue.\\"
It might help if you were at least a little more specific as to what this \\"issue\\" is. I\'ve been trying to figure that out, but so far all you\'ve managed to do is through the same laundry list of how I don\'t understand at me again and again. I\'d like to have dialogue, once you tell me what I\'m supposed to be having a dialogue about.
\\"You suggest that all of this \'outside\' perspective is an objective and justified view of Christians?\\"
I did no such thing! Not once did I bring up Marxism or the Nazis. I did not say that Christian persecution was justified. What you\'ve written is still far beside the point, that Christianity has blood on its hands and we should not sit in judgment of others. I was referring to the opinions of average people, not Soviets and Romans. Example: Muslims were subjected to more than a century of violent Crusades, their holy places burned, their people butchered. In that time, any Muslim in Christian lands, he was ridiculed and hated at best, and being killed was not uncommon. And the Jews had it worse. Is it any wonder they don\'t trust us often times? Even people who aren\'t of these groups realize that these things were wrong; they just let that blind them to who we really are. THAT’S my point, the point I\'ve been making from the start, the only point that needs to be made until you give me a clearer idea of what I\'m supposed to be talking about. I\'m starting to get tired of repeating myself.
Be the first person to like this.
GL
#18
Artintel - look, Jonan74 is absolutely right. There is no point arguing over this. Like I said elsewhere, I\'m a conflict-averse person. If you feel the need to carry out this debate, then please, leave me a closed message on my profile. But really, if you go back and read my previous posts with an open mind and try to see things from a different angle, I think you\'ll find that continuing this is not necessary. Until then, let\'s just put down our swords or take this somewhere else. Thanks, and thank you for challenging me.
Jonan74 - thank you for your well-placed, cool headed comments.
Be the first person to like this.
MS
#19
I would ask her about the weather and if she would like a cup of tea... Whats the point in arguing? She will not accept you as a Christian if you don't accept her as a Moslem.
Be the first person to like this.