What would an honest-to-goodness North American expression of Orthodoxy look like?

Thinking of transforming culture.. I envision a community where family again means something... Where you mourn and honor the dead, care for all living, relatives and friends drop by often and where we just forget ourselves \'cause we\'re too blessed with all the people in our life we need to take care of.

I was talking with some friends and we were wondering if the division of dioceses would be better set up with a bishop in the capital of each state. Then all the bishops could line up according to seniority and be assigned to the diocese according to their talents and experience. And the Archdiocesan ministries could be sorted regionally and would share programs and resources.

I think I will take back my position on flags in the churches; seems better to express Orthodoxy than Nations. A friend reminded me that most nations were born of violence. Mostly I am not in the mood to be thinking \"outside the box.\" But how do we balance ethnic realities with Orthodoxy when Orthodoxy transforms all of who we are? Can we divorce ourselves from our homeland?

thanks! :)

\"For us [Christians] every foreign land is a homeland and every homeland is a foreign land\" (Letter to Diognetus).

Ehh, don\'t think so. I\'m pretty sure that North Dakota has zero, one or two Greek parishes. And there can\'t be that many other jurisdictional parishes, either... so, let\'s say 5 Orthodox parishes in ND...And what about in PA? there are 52 parishes in the tri-state area under the Greek metropolis. Let\'s just take out the OH and WV ones, and say maybe 50 or so in the Pittsburgh area, at least 50 in the Phili area, and some in the middle of the state, Bethlehem, Reading, Erie, etc...I don\'t think that\'s a good idea, sorry...

Don\'t be sorry. Just think bigger! Just because there is only one or none there now doesn\'t mean there always has to be. Plus... each state could be a metropolis which would allow for auxiliary bishops. Don\'t think so small Canoli. Think of potential for growth. Think of an Orthodox America, not a few American Orthodox.

On the history of national flags in North American Orthodox Churches, I think we have to remember that, at least in Churches from the Russian traditon, that they were placed there to affirm to other\\"normal\\" Americans, e.i. White Protestants and Roman Catholics, that the Orthodox were just as patriotic and pro-American and not some kind of Soviet infiltraitors. Maybe it is time to remove them and just flatly state that the sanctuary is about God and not about any political affiliation

I still say its confusing in America to call it \\"Greek Orthodoxy.\\" When the patriarch of this church is in Constantinople, not Greece. So technically there should be a Turkish flag in that sense eh? (oh I can feel the outrage and yes don\'t take me seriously)

This may seem like an elementary question, but how does one feel unwelcome at a church? I\'ve heard several times the case of people calling up the parish only to hear the question \\"Are you [fill in the ethnic blank]?\\" When you go to the church, do the parishoners sneer at you? Do the babushka\'s trip you on your way out? Or is it that you don\'t feel comfortable in the environment (the Old Slavonic or other church language, the ethnic flavor and identity, etc.)? At all the \\"ethnic\\" Orthodox (and Eastern Catholic) parishes I\'ve attended, I\'ve been warmly received: OCA, Romanian, Antiochian, Ruthenian, Moscow Patriarchate, Ukrainian, Melkite, Maronite, etc. Haven\'t been to a Greek Divine Liturgy yet, but I know of people my age who were warmly received into a Greek church. The first Orthodox church I set foot in was an \\"ethnic\\" parish in the rust belt. The parishoners gave my friend and I antidoron, said they were glad we came, and the priest gave us a special welcome at the end of the liturgy. :) When I stayed overnight at the Ukrainian Catholic seminary for the March for Life, the Ukrainian seminarians cleaned my car of snow, and the Ukrainian bishop invited us into the photo shoot at the end of hierarchical Divine Liturgy. :) Some of the ethnic churches I attended I didn\'t feel comfortable, but it wasn\'t because of the people; I just couldn\'t identify with the particular customs. Other places I\'m like, yeah that\'s me! I\'ve found the people at ethnic churches to be warm at heart. And I think it good humor when the priest jests about \\"the Greeks,\\" \\"the Serbians,\\" or any other Orthodox group. I think it\'s great people have heritage.

[quote] StGeorge wrote: This may seem like an elementary question, but how does one feel unwelcome at a church?

oops, sorry about that post, but I was trying to reply about what happened that made me feel unwelcome. My first taste of Orthodoxy was in NY at a Greek parish. I was 22 and looking for a new home because the Episcopal church was going to hell in a handbasket, pardon my phrase. I loved the Episcopal church and was broken hearted about its demise. Anyway, I went to this Greek church because someone said that they also used prayers and incense and all the things that I loved about the Episcopal church. So I went. I went twice. Not a single soul spoke to me. I went to the priest to inquire about Orthodoxy and he asked me if I was Greek and when I said no, he said that I probably wouldn\'t enjoy his church and I should find a place better suited to me. I wanted to know more. But was essentially turned away. I am Orthodox now in a Western Rite church in the Antiochian diocese. I am so blessed to be Orthodox now. If we want more people to find Orthodoxy, then we need to be willing to answer their questions. The Greek church did the whole service in Greek and all the people participated including the children. It was a largish parish I believe. I was not deterred by the lack of English, but I think more parishes should move to English. That is my humble opinion.

Ever hear of the Syro-Malabar? By the way you dress, I think you\'d fit right in! :) Unfortunately, they\'re Eastern Catholic and not Orthodox. Here you can check out this video: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ55IjOm9tg&feature=related]Syro-Malabar Qurbana[/url]

Let me start by saying that I was not really aware of this problem until I started listening to Ancient faith radio (thanks to my daughter again). There was an interesting discussion with a lawyer - do not remember his name , I believe Kevin interviewed him and he talked about this problem. What I did not like was the insinuation that other orthodox churches do not wish to integrate because of possible financial gain. There was also a statement that people are leaving orthodoxy because of this reason. I believe that Orthodoxy is greater than any nationalism, but it helped preserve the nations through history.At least, our Serbian Church did. There should be also a strict difference made between customs and faith. Greeks have name days, Serbs have family saint\'s day - but the link is the Orthodox faith. I also listened to a good radio presentation about father Rose - Serbs highly respect and venerate him . It seems to me that we Orthodox just need to learn patience and when God decides there will be - (or not)? American Orthodox church. Because the same happens with saints - leave it to the time and people and true saints will be recognized. And again, who can make Serbs venerate father Rose? i believe it\'s God\'s will and providence. And I do not know whether it is good or not, but to those who leave orthodoxy because of lack of strict administration, I would say - safe journey and the best of luck. As a matter of fact, a story comes to my mind: A young man comes to a starets, and wants to be his pupil.So the old man asks: Can you take that shirt off and give it a poor? The young man answers: Sorry, I cannot. Starets again says: Can you turn the other cheek if somebody hits you on the other/ The young man says: Oh, no, I will not do that. So, starets turns to one of his pupils and says: One thing he cannot, the other he will not. Give him some bread and wish him a good luck on his journey. In my now ripe age, I remember certain of my judgments when I was younger and I am sad I was not wiser at the time. I often pray that I am forgiven for them, especially about some of our bishops who we believed were pro-communist and criticized them heavily. It turned out that some of them by just being wise managed to help our church survive. So let\'s be patient and God will help us along and show the right way.

Good point Dana, I really appreciated it. I\'ve had protestant friends who are adamant that Orthodoxy was not effected (negatively) by communism no matter how much I try to show them otherwise. Thus their belief is that Orthodoxy is worse for it. But when I point out problems with their heroes say, ... Jessie Jackson, Luther, Calvin, Billy Grahm those are often brushed off as well. Random point, a protestant buddy of mine who loves Billy Grahm was once critical of infant baptism. Then I pointed out to him that even his beloved Billy Grahm approved of it. LOL no matter what he couldn\'t accept that one! Ok sorry, I was totally random and off topic (again)