Is Hell...?

The body does share the fate of the soul in the end.

http://www.orthodoxpress.org/parish/river_of_fire.htm an epitome of the orthodox theology about paradise and hell

That was very good. Thank you for the link!

hell is the absence of God

How can there be an absence of God, when God is \"everywhere present and fillest all things.\" \"In the grave bodily, in Hades with the Soul, thought Thou art God, in Paradise with the thief, on the Throne with the Father and the Holy Spirit art Thou Who fillest all things, O Christ the Ineffable!\" So if He is in Hades/Hell with the Soul, how can Hell be his absence. I am not trying to provoke anyone, I am saying, I genuinely want to understand this matter...and I suspect that this is something that many others have trouble (especially those of us who are converts) have trouble with also.

Thanks, Bratislav, that does make sense. But to bring it back to the original question (place vs. state of being), it seems to me that what you\'re saying falls into the \"state of being\" category. Most of what I\'ve read from modern Orthodox theologians seems to agree with that. The problem is that most Orthodox people I know (that is, \"cradle Orthodox\") seem to be of the geographic place/punishment opinion. I know there is no need in Orthodoxy to overdefine--in fact, Orthodoxy resists over-definition--but it seems to me that the correct doctrine of the afterlife is part of understanding the correct doctrine of \'what salvation is.\' I didn\'t want to set too many parameters in the question originally, because I wanted to see if there was a range of opinion on the topic (without seeming to be fishing for an answer). However, maybe I should\'ve explained where my curiosity was coming from...

I think that, actually, it\'s both. It\'s a physical \"state of being\". The state being \"in hell\" which is separation from God and perpetual death. The place being a physical place where the body does share the fate of the soul. I\'m not to familiar with Revelation as I really haven\'t studied it but isn\'t it, in the end, a lake of fire?

I think so, yes... But also a very physical place (in addition to that \"state\") from my understanding of it.

Where I\'m leaning on the matter is that because Christ paid the ransom to Death for all mankind, everyone is permitted into the eternal and eternally loving presence of God; that is, everyone gets theosis, in a sense. But for those who do not love Christ and do not seek his will, they will experience that continual presence of God as the \"all consuming fire\" while those who have followed Christ will experience it will all the joy of a continual Paschal celebration. I could be wrong about this, of course, but this seems consistent with what I\'ve read, and with the opinions of some of the others who have contributed to the thread.

I agree with you. Evil has no ontology - that is to say, there is no thing that is evil, it\'s just a bunch of death-filled choices. A sort of a deadly void and a total misuse of freedom. And if hell is a literal place, is it not inherently evil? How can a place, a thing, be inherently evil if God created all things and \"saw that it was good?\"

The Greek word in the NT that is usually translated as \"hell\" is \"Gehenna\". This is actually a Hebrew word that meant the stinking, burning place outside the city of Jerusalem where the Jews dumped and burned their refuse, an actual place. And in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man definitely said that he was in anguish in the flame, which would tend to suggest an actual place. As to the gulf that separated him from Lazarus, that no man could pass through, that is a metaphor for the finality of the situation, that once you die, there is no \"turning back\" or repentance after death. On a side note, the name of the city Vienna is actually a contraction of the words Via Gehenna--the Road to Hell. If someone could do some more research on how the city got this name, I\'d like to read it.

I agree. As God is \"everywhere and fillest all things,\" there is truly no way that God could be absent from such a place. Hell, at least I believe, is more of state of being as well, in that it is when the sinful soul is unable to handle being in the presence of God and thus believes itself to be in pain. Looking through the posts here, that seems to be a fairly popular idea... I don\'t see why being \"in anguish in the flame\" necessitates an actual physical location.

I feel like we are children in a sandbox discussing the state of the economy. Who here has the spiritual maturity and experience to give an opinion about the experience of hades? The only thing any of us can say is that we know that \"hell\" is a place where people go when they don\'t want to be with Christ. And the details should be left explained by the saints. I don\'t discourage the arguement...I just think that we should focus on the struggle of our faith and therefore comes the understanding of eternal damnation. What I mean is that this shouldn\'t be presented as a coffee break subject. It is an expression of spiritual concern that is related to our spiritual warefare.

Why do we say, then, in the next line, \"Come and abide in us\"? Doesn\'t that imply that the Heavenly King is not already in us? If hell is separation from God, then this prayer sounds to me like we are already separated from God before we say the prayer. Sorry for the tangent.

I think it is in the sense that just as the Spirit fills the rest of creation, we want it to fill us. Just as it fills us during certain sacraments and sacramentals--Unction, Orders, even in the sense that Christ fills us when we partake of the Eucharist. I find it amazing how so many unbelievers think that Hell is just going to be one great big party. If so, it is one I certainly would not want to crash.