Νικόλαος Slayton
#0
If Hagia Sophia and Hagia Irene were restored to the Church, what would the iconostasis be like? One is named for Holy Peace and the other Holy Wisdom. What would that look like on an iconostasis? I am just curious.
Thanks
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Rev Fr Athanasios Haros
#7
Benjamin wrote:
That was an interesting icon.
If we decided to build a 1:1 scale replica of Hagia Sophia, what do you think the Iconostasis would be like?
In fact they are building a physical replica in Charlotte. The interior though will be modern based on modern usage.
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Νικόλαος Slayton
#8
Saint Nektarios Greek Orthodox Church in Charlotte, NC. They\'re opening the doors in a few weeks I think. I want to see it.
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#1
CampNazFanatic wrote:
I have seen an icon of the Christ the Holy Wisdom, i think it was on OrthodoxWiki. Unfortunately, I cannot find it anymore. I did, however find the following icon of the "Holy Wisdom of God." http://www.future-shape-of-church.org/images/wisdom.jpg The icon i was referring to earlier was similar. I'd like feedback on the icon.
The “icon” of Christ Holy Wisdom, and others which attempt to portray Christ as a personification of an attribute of His, such as “Angel of Blessed Silence” has been denounced for many centuries as uncanonical by the Orthodox Church, going back as far as St John of Damascus’ treatise “On the Divine Images”, and the Seventh Ecumenical Council of 787 (canon 82). Subsequent councils, such as the Stoglav (Hundred Chapters) Council of Moscow of 1551, and other rulings of synodal level, reinforced the uncanonicity of these types of images. I can provide more detailed information on this matter, please feel free to contact me by PM.
It is unfortunate, and potentially spiritually damaging, that such uncanonical images continue to be produced and disseminated by Orthodox and non-Orthodox alike.
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Actually the iconostais would not be different than the once we have today because the old days the iconostasis was but a drape seperating the solea from the altar... and they used to hang icons on it. It was a later additon to put an actual iconostasis. And the altar was a greek P shaped with the synthronon in the back arch with chairs where the hierarchy would sit. What we have today as the throne of the Bishop was the Emperor\'s throne that got replaced by the Patriarch when there was no Emperor.
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#11
As an academic archaeologist, I may have a useful answer. I presume by your question, \"If Hagia Sophia and Hagia Irene were restored to the Church, what would the iconostasis be like?\" you mean what did the original iconostasis look like?
You may want to check out these two websites that will give you a visual image:
http://george.papagiannakis.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/ijac2.jpg
and
http://www.udel.edu/ArtHistory/nees/209/images/8-02.jpg
However, another good way to find out is to consult primary sources. These can be found in such books as:
Mango, C. 2004. The Art of the Byzantine Empire, 312-1453: Sources and Documents. Toronto: University of Toronto Press.
In that book Paulus Silentiarius\' Description of St. Sophia from 563 A.D. says:
\"Not only upon the walls which separate the priest from the choir of singers has he set plates of naked silver, but the columns, too, six sets of twain in number...he has...artfully hollowed out discs...within which it [the tool the artist uses for carving] has engraved the figure of the immaculate God...Elsewhere it has carved the host of winged angels...Nor has the artist forgotten the images of those who abandoned the mean labors of their life [i.e. the disciples]...art has depicted the Mother of Christ...the carver\'s tool has incised one symbol that means many words, for it combines the names of teh Empress and Emperor: It is like a shield with a boss in whose middle part has been carved the sign of the cross. And the screen gives access to the priests through three doors. For on each side the workman\'s hand has made a small door.\"
You may also want to consult books such as:
Lowden, J. 1997. Early Christian and Byzantine Art. London: Phaidon Press Ltd.
and
Rodley, L. 1994. Byzantine Art and Architecture: an Introduction. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
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#10
You also want to remember that both Hagia Sophia was destroyed and rebuilt several times in antiquity (having been originally built by Constantius in 360, then by Theodosius II in 415, and finally by Justinian in 532-7). Each time the look of the church was altered.
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#13
Thanks JohnChan, I wasn\'t sure how to do that!
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John Chan
#14
you\'re welcome. just put the URL link in \"IMG\" tags - there\'s a button under the \"post reply\" page somewhere that makes it easy.
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Paul Barrera
#15
FrAthanasios wrote:
In fact they are building a physical replica in Charlotte. The interior though will be modern based on modern usage.
Is this really a 1:1 replica? It seems smaller....
Also, will it be like Hagia Sophia or will it have pews filling the nave?
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#16
There\'s a replica going up? I must see this!
Also: the Iconostasis as we know it didn\'t really appear until the period of the Comnenoi dynasty (beginning with Alexius I Comnenos in 1048, and ending with the brutal death of Andronikos I Comnenos on the streets of Constantinople in 1185...and no, you don\'t want to know about it)
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#17
God willing
If the Hagia Sophia is restored, should not a
special place of eminence be in honor
(veneration) of all (or at least the most that
can be remembered) new martyrs of
Orthodoxy, post Great Schism 1054 AD,
martyred at the hands of the Latins (cf.
post- 1206 AD) and of the Turks (Muslims),
and all the new martyrs of the former
Soviet Union. They are worthy of a special
place of honor in any Orthodox Church.
They gave not only their times, but their
very lives for Christ.
Also, the three Pillars of Orthodoxy, Saint
Photios the Great, Saint Gregory of
Palamas, and Saint Mark Evgenikos of
Ephesus, should be given a special honor.
Above all, icons of our LORD GOD and
Saviour Jesus Christ, of our Blessed Lady
Ever-Virgin Mary Theotokos, of Saint
Andrew and Saint Peter and Saint John and
Saint Paul and the rest of the Twelve
Apostles, should be emphasized. And Saint
John Chrysostom, Saint Gregory of Nyssa,
Saint Gregory Nazianzen, and Saint Basil of
Caesarea.
Should not all these martyrs and saints be
on a new iconostasis in the blessed Hagia
Sophia.
And of course, Saint Michael Cerularios
should be given a very special place on the
iconostasis for his brave and faithful stance
against mendacious Cardinal Humbert of the
schismatic Latins.
God bless all of you.
Scott Harrington
Erie PA USA
November 2007 (new calendar month;
October, Old calendar month).
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#18
Here are some pictures of the church in question St. Nektarios
http://www.stnektarios.org/pictures/St Nektarios Pictures/
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CodyosVladimiros wrote:
There's a replica going up? I must see this!
Also: the Iconostasis as we know it didn't really appear until the period of the Comnenoi dynasty (beginning with Alexius I Comnenos in 1048, and ending with the brutal death of Andronikos I Comnenos on the streets of Constantinople in 1185...and no, you don't want to know about it)
Andronikos I Comnenus was basically a cruel terrorist...who got a taste of his own medicine when he was deposed. Good to see another person here who has studied Byzantine history to any extent.
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Νικόλαος Slayton
#20
Unfortunately, Saint Nektarios Orthodox Church is not a 1:1 scale replica or a perfectly accurate reproduction, but that said, it is a very beautiful church and it does look a lot like Hagia Sophia. It does have pews in the nave and an iconostasis and modern setup, but it also has galleries like the original. I want to see it and take zillions of digital photos and make sweet videos.
I think it is roughly the size of Saint George Cathedral, but I\'m not sure. The pictures I\'ve seen on the wibsite are very nice. I can\'t wait to go to this place. I\'ve been talking about it for a while.
Also, I have heard from Metropolitan Alexios that the Metropolis is building a church/chapel in the future at the Diakonia Center that will be a little smaller than Saint Nektarios, but otherwise a more accurate reproduction. I haven\'t seen drawings or anyhting yet, but I\'ve heard that a lot of money has been donated and an architect has been hired to design the structure.
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