Tsar Nicholas III?

Shh! Don\'t tell anyone! The turks will get me! (okay, I\'m not DIRECTLY descended from Constantine...we\'re from an illegitimate daughter from Theodore, the last Despot of the Morea and Constantine\'s Brother. The other irony here is that I\'m the first Orthodox member of my family for a couple hundred years.)

I thought Manuel II Palaeologus only had four sons--John VIII, Demetrius, Thomas, and the aforementioned Constantine XI. It was Thomas\' daughter Zoe-Sophia that married John (Ivan) III the Grand Prince of Moscow,. She was known to the Russians as Sophia Palaeologina. Ivan then became known as the \"Tsar of all Orthodoxy\".

If it is so bad in Israel, as one of you quoted from the Prophet Samuel, to have a king, does that mean a King over some other nation than Israel will do the same as a King of Israel? That text in Samuel does not say that. Nor does the text in Samuel say that a non-king ruler would not be worse than a King. Look at Stalin and Lenin. Stalin was not a King, and he murdered 60 million people. Did Tsar Nicholas II do anything as bad as Stalin did? You who quote from Samuel, which is the Word of God, what point are you trying to make? What about one of the Epistles of St. Peter, which says, \"Fear God; honor the king?\" How can one honor the king if there is no king? Anyway, Christ is our King, no matter who the earthly king is. But Scripture does say in Romans 13 to obey the authorities. It as says in Acts \"we must obey God rather than men.\" We must \"render under Caeser the things which are Caesar\'s, but unto God the things which are God\'s\". Worship belongs to God only. If the authority does not demand our worship and religion, we can honor any of their lawful laws which do not conflict which Church doctrine and Biblical law. It seems that Scripture says nothing for or against democracy. It is a difficult question to judge which form of temporal government is the best. Since no form of government eliminates sin and human imperfection, there are terrible sins in any form of government. It just is a matter of which government deals with human evil better. Certainly it would better be to have had Tsar Nicholas II in Russia than the man who arose in Germany, and the man who later arose in Russia. Stalin is the worst. Hitler on par and as bad as Stalin, even though Stalin killed more people. At any rate, how many lives to Tsar Nicholas II sacrifice? Does it follow, doe sit stand to reason, that if there were a king in Russia, or, of all place, America, for example, he would do as bad as Stalin? And what about weapons of mass destruction? Stalin had the weapons of mass destruction, and he did not attack America. So far, no one has attacked America, nor has America attacked anyone since Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It seems the Bible or the form of government is not the quetsion. The question is the heart of the individual. Stalin had a worse personality than a Tsar of Russia did. True, there was Ivan the Terrible. It is said he did some bad things. But then, I am out of my depth, and don\'t know the details of Russian history. It seems to me we would have more to worry about from a leader of Persia (Iran) than we would from a Tsar in Russia. Where there are Christians in a nation, a nation is exalted. Where a nation is pagan, as in Iran, the leaders are not restrained. Even where there are Christians, the leader can not be restrained, as in the Soviet Union. But perhaps God spared the world worse evil than Stalin because Orthodox Russia was repentant. We all need to repent more, but come what may, we cannot place our trust in temporary peace in this world. Not until the True King, Jesus Christ, the King of King, comes reign in His Kingdom, shall there be true peace for God\'s world. But the Church shall prevail against the gates of hell (Matt. 16:18), and whatever form of government, in this world, Christians will suffer with Christ, if not for Christ in active persecution. Sometimes the form of suffering will not be physical, as it was in the Soviet Union. Sometimes there will be relative \"prosperity\", as in America. We are so spoiled here in America. We have it well. Let us thank God for the blessings of liberty, and hope God will forgive us for our trespasses. Take care. God bless America. God save America and Russia and all the nations of the world. God bring peace to Jerusalem. \"Pray for the peace of Jerusalem; they shall prosper that love thee.\"

Thomas, sorry. I don\'t know why I keep saying \"Theodore\". It\'s an old family story, anyway--there\'s really no way to determine how true or not the story is. (but it would be pretty neat if it was!)

hmm Maybe we could just make the US an Orthodox powerhouse lol

There definately should be. I\'d probably try to emmigrate if there was.

The Protestant fundamentalists get all sidetracked trying to pin the tail on \"the Antichrist\". There has been no official word on who \"the final antichrist\" is. Some think it is Prince Charles of England. There is a strange book which I have not read which is something like \"The Antichrist and a Cup of Tea\". Who knows about things. The thing is to not be antichristian oneself and come to the real Christ ASAP, now. Now and always. Some Protestants used to think all the popes of Rome are Antichrist. The Orthodox seem to say only the popes are in heresy and schism over FIlioque. etc since 1014 AD. Go figure. Anyway, whatever \"government\" temporarily, in the Last Word, Christ alone is the PANTOCRATOR, and will defeat any possible Antichrist. Take care.

Yes, the reasons why the Israelites wanted a king was the same as why we want one. The audience is told in the epistles to honor the king because they have one. David is very careful to honor King Saul; he refused to hurt God\'s anointed one. The passage where the Israelites ask for a king is a different issue. Why would someone want a king if they didn\'t have one? God tells Samuel that the people want a king because they want to reject God and be like the other nations. What reasons do we have?

My family played a large role in the independence of Crete from the Turks. In the revolt of 1898, my great-grandfather\'s house was the headquarters for Eleutherios Venizelos and his bunch. When the Great Powers stepped in to assure Crete\'s independence, the independence declaration was signed on great-grandpa\'s dining room table.

According to some, Antichrist may not necessarily be a single person, but rather, possibly, an attitude or the state of our decadent society as we roll headlong into the end times. A great book that explains Revelation from an Orthodox perspective is The Apocalypse in the Teachings of Ancient Christianity by Archbishop Averky Taushev. He goes verse by verse throughout the whole book of Revelation and uses the writings of St. Andrew of Caesarea as a basis for his explanations. It is definitely a must read for Orthodox who are interested in Revelation and don\'t want to be misled by what they read in Protestant sources.

Some interesting reading if anyone\'s interested - St Paisius Velichkovsky had a variety of prophetic visions which I read in a biography (sorry it\'s been about 20 years, so I can\'t remember the title) Seems like there were alot of conclusions that could be drawn. Anyone else ever read this!?!? Mat SIE

Since we\'re on the topic of the possibility of restoring Holy Monarchy here, anyone know how popular an idea that is in maybe Greece, Russia, Eastern Europe? Anyone think that there is a chance it will gain any popular support here?

Further to Manny\'s post: Allow me a little history lesson: Constantine was not quite deposed in 1967 following the military coup, he fled into exile in London, where he and his family lives to this day. Even before the ousting of the colonels\' government and the restoration of parliamentary democracy in 1974, there were rumblings of Constantine\'s role in the coup. Greeks are notorious conspiracy theorists (second only to the Russians :grin:), but more and more evidence kept coming to light which pointed to Constantine at least turning a blind eye to the imminent coup, and, worse, encouraging the colonels. Constantine was a very popular king when he acceded to the throne in 1965, but once it became apparent that the king was not entirely ignorant of the colonels\' plans, rapidly got on the nose. Greeks will put you on a pedestal, but they\'ll rip you down faster than you can blink if they so much as sniff betrayal. The new democratic government of Greece held a referendum in late 1975 on whether the monarchy should be reinstated. The result was beyond question: more than 75% of Greek voters said \"no\". To this day, any attempt by Constantine or any of his family to even set foot on Greek oil has been met with a polite but firm refusal by Greek authorities. There are some remnants of a monarchist persuasion living in Greece, but they are only a few, and most are past any serious effort to restore the monarchy. In short, the chances of Greece restoring its monarchy are pretty well zero.

Holy? Jesus is the king for me.

Folks, that should be SOIL, not oil. Whoops! :o :o