OH
#0
I volunteer for an Orthodox preschool that rents a group of rooms from a Baptist church. On the walls of the Baptist\'s copy room I saw a map of Greece. I was surprised. The assistant told me about their Greek employee who was going to offer service in the mission field in Greece for the Baptist Church.
I was wondering if anyone had experience with non-Orthodox missionaries in Orthodox countries and what we can do to stop this.
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RB
#113
ostonvasi wrote:
What did Jesus teach us in the Gospels?
'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' Luke 10:27
For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' Matt 25:42-25
And after the Apostles were in a close relationship with Him he instructed: “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Mat 28:19-20
The Church is a tool to help us do these things. The sacraments put us in a right frame of mind and heart (Humility, repentance, obedience, relationship with God) so we can do these things in True Love.
If anything, He challenged the Pharisees who stood in the Temple and preached what they did not do. Matt 23: 13-33
Orthodox (and other) Missionaries here and abroad, help people come to a genuine relationship with God first through action: feeding, clothing, healing and visiting. Then they minister to them spiritually by the sacraments and worship they understand. Orthodox Missionaries don't make Orthodox Robots but genuine Christians. We also should not become Orthodox Robots but genuine Christians.
If you want to make a statement as a universal Orthodox Community- we should be encouraging and inspiring brotherly love through ministry to our brothers and sisters in Christ, providing homeless shelters, food banks, hospital and prison ministry, visiting shut-ins, assisting the elderly, widowed and single parents. Leave the dogma out for now and show the world God’s love from our actions. We could change the world!
I agree.
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Misha Sarov
#110
Dear Vino,i speak as an orthodox from an orthodox country.I ve seen the missionaries to knock my door with a Bible in their hands or to say better with a twisted translation of the Bible ....
i know that they do a vast damage to people\'s souls,leading them outside of Christ\'s church,making them blind and deaf(mentally)
and what i say is that there s no place for them in any orthodox country.if we leave them to act freely,we show indifference for our brother\'s and sisters.....
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Misha Sarov
#114
dear Vino,what i m trying to say is that all this \"missionary passion\" is definitely a spiritual illness and maybe an indication of mental illness (this is very obvious in some pentecostals)
and is not a \"privilege\" for \"christians\" only.
muslims share the same \"holy passion\" to convert others .....
\"For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge\" Rom,10.2
\"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.\"Matthew 23,15
In Greece there are more than 100 \"christian\" groups who preach their own \"gospel\" and more than 400 non christian groups (eastern religions etc)!
most of the times the protestants write on their flyers and newspapers that \"we are not heretics,we have no relations with JW ,we are christians\".....
they mask their identity to attract those who have no knowledge of Bible and theology.
i am against any kind of religious persecution,but i strongly believe that Church should unmask them and protect the orthodox faithful,supporting them from heresies\' side effects.
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EC
#115
Misha_ wrote:
dear Vino,what i m trying to say is that all this "missionary passion" is definitely a spiritual illness and maybe an indication of mental illness (this is very obvious in some pentecostals)
In Greece there are more than 100 "christian" groups who preach their own "gospel" and more than 400 non christian groups (eastern religions etc)!
most of the times the protestants write on their flyers and newspapers that "we are not heretics,we have no relations with JW ,we are christians".....
they mask their identity to attract those who have no knowledge of Bible and theology.
i am against any kind of religious persecution,but i strongly believe that Church should unmask them and protect the orthodox faithful,supporting them from heresies' side effects.
If they do not believe in the decisions made by the Ecumenical Councils (and many of them don\'t), then they ARE heretics whether they say so or not. But we are missing the bottom line here. You hit on it a little, when you said that they prey on people who have no knowledge of the Bible or theology. Now whose fault is that? Wouldn\'t you say it\'s at least partially the fault of our own clergy, including our bishops? I\'m often amazed at the lack of knowledge by our own people. Fortunately, my priest is trying to change that. If God ever sees fit for me to become Deacon, even though I am not worthy of it, that will be one of the things I will definitely concentrate on.
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OH
#116
Our lack of educated Christians is everyone\'s fault. Everyone is responsible and members of a royal priesthood- it\'s never a good idea to point fingers to the clergy and bishops. We can only point to ourselves... it\'s a basic teaching of Christ... own log... you know.
We can sit here for hours- days- trying to place blame on society, clergy, schools, TV, the Papists- but the truth is that we each need to look at what we are each personally doing to preach the Gospel without opening our mouths- or typing. :)
When people see Christ in us they will either want to kill us or be like us.
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EC
#117
I apologize if I offended anyone. You are right, it is everyone\'s fault. We all need to do more, especially in teaching our own children. But you have to admit that when it comes to religious education, the Orthodox of my generation are sorely lacking. And we are the ones that are teaching our young people. I would venture to say that most people here on Orthodox Circle are doing more than the usual lay person. But we definitely need all the help we can get. So I can only say: Be a leader in your own parish. That doesn\'t mean cooking for the food festival. DO something that furthers the church\'s mission. Learn all you can and soak it up like a sponge, and pass it on to others. Buy a few bags of groceries and give them yourself to someone who has nothing. Teach your own kids the faith. Volunteer in Sunday School. Join your parish choir. Do something that is going to educate and attract others to your church--and above all, BE Orthodox--try to live your faith as best you can! The last thing Protestants expect is to be \"evangelized\"--and if we are more knowledgeable about our own faith, who knows what will happen when more and more of us present it to them.
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RB
#108
Manny wrote:
I apologize if I offended anyone. You are right, it is everyone's fault. We all need to do more, especially in teaching our own children. But you have to admit that when it comes to religious education, the Orthodox of my generation are sorely lacking. And we are the ones that are teaching our young people. I would venture to say that most people here on Orthodox Circle are doing more than the usual lay person. But we definitely need all the help we can get. So I can only say: Be a leader in your own parish. That doesn't mean cooking for the food festival. DO something that furthers the church's mission. Learn all you can and soak it up like a sponge, and pass it on to others. Buy a few bags of groceries and give them yourself to someone who has nothing. Teach your own kids the faith. Volunteer in Sunday School. Join your parish choir. Do something that is going to educate and attract others to your church--and above all, BE Orthodox--try to live your faith as best you can! The last thing Protestants expect is to be "evangelized"--and if we are more knowledgeable about our own faith, who knows what will happen when more and more of us present it to them.
I agree! More zeal to educate our own--or at least as much zeal as the Protestants to evangelize our people.
Why would Protestants et al put more energy, money, and time into educating the Orthodox than the Orthodox? I think our resources should go into forming our people--even more than building programs. Personally, I\'d rather see more dedicated, informed, merciful Orthodox than could fit in the churches, rather than beautiful, expensive churches full of judgmental ignoramuses.
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JW
#118
Ok, we\'ve been talking about all this for a month or more...how many of us have contributed to the situation in real life, instead of just typing about what we need to do here?
Let\'s get out there, touch some lives, and live a Christian life as we\'ve been called to do.
God Bless
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OH
#119
If you are interested in mission work or supporting the Orthodox who are out there teaching and ministering, go to: http://www.ocmc.org If you can\'t go yourself, maybe you can support some one already there.
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Dia Lamb
#120
OCMC! Thank you Presvytera for reminding us!
I just want to make an observation.
The adversity against the heterodox missionaries some of us have expressed, is not an adversity to their person.
We are not mad at them personally.
(and this is why just being kind to them personally, or educating them about Orthodoxy is not enough).
It is the whole movement, ideology, indirect language and methods that they use, the emotional dependency they create in their small bible study groups, that are so dangerous, indeed harmful, and also very deceiving.
And we cannot focus on treating them as a case by case basis, because as Misha mentioned, it\'s true, uneducated Orthodox people (I mean especially uneducated in the Faith, but unfortunately sometimes academically too), fall very easy pray. Especially when in volnurable circumstances. And some of these groups operate differently outside the USA. They GIVE money and time and care to those in need, to someone vulnerable, a family in bad circumstances.
In our eyes, this may seems as done out of philanthropy. The trouble is that with it comes the \"us vs them\" propaganda (we - the non-Orthodox love you, the- the Orhtodox, what have they done for you?)
Well, I fully agree we need to educate our Orthodox adults most of all, and we need to show our Faith in philanthropic actions too, but when there\'s sometimes so few sowers, the Church\'s main mission are the Sacraments and to preach Truth.
Of course we need more than that. We all need pastoral care, and many many of us will need material help or time, support, advice in our lives.
However, our lack of doing this, does not mean that we can keep the door open for the heterodox\'s micheivious ways, at least not without being concerned.
Forgive me if I am offending anyone. I do not mean to.
Neither do I mean to sound adverserial in an \"us vs heretics\" battle. That\'s not profitable.
But their presence is a serious problem. People are loosing their Faith through them, and it was Christ who warned not to tempt others..
If a mini skirt is a sin, how is sugar-coated heresy not??
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EC
#121
JimmyTheRock wrote:
Ok, we've been talking about all this for a month or more...how many of us have contributed to the situation in real life, instead of just typing about what we need to do here?
Let's get out there, touch some lives, and live a Christian life as we've been called to do.
God Bless
God, my parish, and my priest know what I have done.... I won\'t enumerate everything here. And I might add, there are ways to help the situation even if your finances are limited (like mine). But JimmytheRock is right. We all need to be doers and clean up our own back yard, so to speak, before we b;ame Protestants for horning in on our turf. Now that the church is free from oppression in many places where it wasn\'t before (except in places like Albania and Turkey), we need to concentrate on re-evangelizing our own people. Ostonvasi is right too. Missionary support is absolutely critical!
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RB
#122
I think it is important to have more Orthodox academics. We need people who can work in the academy and be Orthodox at the same time. As it stands, we do not have a very good pool to draw from for professors in seminaries. With better and more professors, we will have better educated priests, who can then educate the people. And we can hope that more missionaries will come of this movement.
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RB
#35
Vino wrote:
But something is lacking. What is it? What can we do to keep them (and ourselves!) Home? What can we do to grow strong? Is it something we can do together and help each other with? Or is this all individual effort? Or maybe a little bit of both? I dunno. :confused:
These are great questions that I ask myself, too. I think those of us with kids can\'t help but ask them. Though I\'m a convert, my kids are cradle, and I wonder what power--if any--I have to instill love of the church in them.
I think the \"secret\" is to ask the questions you\'re asking. Humble, prayerful introspection will provide us the answers. I don\'t think condemning the heretics for ringing our doorbells will help answer these questions.
Vino, would you be willing to start a thread so we can hear how you would answer these questions? I would love to hear others\' answers, too.
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Dia Lamb
#1
Dear Vino, I too very much like your questions and the way you pose them. Especially about getting along with non-Orthodox family members.
At the same time, I hope we don\'t confuse others in this thread, since the consideration here is non-orthodox in Orthodox lands. If someone quickly read comments and thinks we are so \"closed doors\" to non-Orthodox family members they may be rightly put off.
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OH
#31
Today I drove by the Greek Evangelical Church. This was a first for me.
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