Orthodoxy and Obedience

Ostonvasi said: I am concerned by the mentality that every practice by non-Orthodox is bad. The following quote is one of many criticizing the other faiths. "The obedience to a certain bishop is also a characteristic of papists and can be found to schematics also." Does this make obedience bad? NO! Our spiritual fathers expect our obedience. God will bless the person seeking truth.

Justinain said: Namees and ostonvasi--both of you make excellent points, but what you guys aren't recognizing is that people who get to the point where they pass judgment on the decisions of hierarchs, they can selectively pick and choose which hierarchs are 'Orthodox' based on who agrees with their opinion. This is what most of the 'ecumenist' libel that gets thrown around boils down to; people not allowing the tradition to form them, but rather, assuming that they are in a position to judge it. Lord knows that I am guilty of this, also, on occasion. But these kinds of debates profit us nothing, in the end. They only serve to divide us Orthodox against one another, and limits our ability to effectively witness to the True Faith among the unchurched and the heterodox alike.

Ostonvasi said: I once heard a story of a monk, out of obedience to his geronda, watered a dead stick. After several days of "fruitless" watering, the stick began to grow. Was it the geronda that made it grow or the obedience to God through the geronda? We are to be obedient to our bishops regardless to how we perceive their holiness.

Justinian said: God is the only judge of a person's holiness...not we sinners. I am in no position to judge whether or not my priest or my bishop is luminary. I obey, because in the end, as ostonvasi says, our obedience is to God through our bishops and priests. There is also the story of the monk whose elder was not a holy man at all--and who abused him, mocked him, set him to impossible tasks, etc. Nevertheless, the monk achieved theosis through his obedience, and after his elder's repose, God granted him a vision of his elder in hell. Such was the grace and humility of that saint that he prayed to God to deliver his elder from torment, and after much fasting and prayer for his elder, God granted him to see that his elder was delivered from hell. The point is, the saint achieved his holiness through obedience to an unholy man--because in the end, his obedience was to God.

Misha said: The monk you said ,dear Justinian, was a contemporary saint ..elder Ephraim of Katounakia in Mt Athos,who reposed recently.